3 Chamber Still

Smaug · 13 May 2021 05:31PM

@DonMateo said: I found a drawing of a three chamber whiskey still with the deep bed bubble caps by Irving Hirsh is his book Manufacture of WHiskey Brandy and Cordials. Page 55 which has the thumper. I would imagine that is not a coincidence. Cheers

Indeed. The changes would be the plate system in the stripper. And the thumper has a two plate column.

I don't have the book so I have not fully determined if the drawing shows a slobber box or true thumper? It matters not. The thumper can certainly do the job of a slobber box. But a slobber box can not do the job of a thumper.

EDIT: Ah, I found a more clear picture and can now see that Mr. Hirsch does label that as a doubler.

Smaug · 13 May 2021 05:52PM

Do you have the book @DonMateo ? Are you able to see how part # M is described / characterized?

grim · 13 May 2021 06:09PM

Post it?

DonMateo · 13 May 2021 07:52PM

OK guys. Here it is. All this talk has got me a hankering to make a couple of deep bed mondo bubblecaps and see how they work.

This book was written in 1924 and its very interesting if you want to know how things were done a long time ago. He has lots of flow diagrams as well. And in some cases rough equipment sizes. I have scanned the cover page as well.

DonMateo · 13 May 2021 08:24PM

One last scan from Irvings book. This is a barrel aging chart prepared by Irving but the thing that I never really noticed before is that all of the barrelling proofs are at around 100 proof. That ties up with what is in the Leopold Brothers video that 100 years ago most whiskey was aged at 100 proof. Actually for me I have been aging at 100proof and prefer it by far to barreling at 120 or 130. For me it produces a much more balanced whiskey and you know exactly when to pull the whiskey off the wood. For a rank beginner that is.

crozdog · 15 May 2021 04:24AM

I found the book available for online viewing here:

Manufacture of whiskey, brandy and cordials, by Irving Hirsch @ HathiTrust Digital Library

DonMateo · 15 May 2021 01:06PM

Most of this book is kind of out of date but it is an interesting snap shot of distilling from the 1920s to the 1930s and the processes they used to use. The Three chamber still has be intrigued.

Smaug · 15 May 2021 06:31PM

Sure. The internet has made short work of the learning curve compared to those days.

DonMateo · 15 May 2021 11:02PM

Those mushroom type mega bubble caps. I am trying to figure out where you feed in the vapor. I would imagine at the tips of the edges, so to speak you would have some holes for releasing bubbles to the exterior and some to the interior. The ones to the interior would eventually collapse as the vapor distills and thefore flow out to the exterior. Thats my guess but without seeing one its hard to know.

Smaug · 16 May 2021 01:13PM

Yeah I have looked at various drawings to try and make sense of the various designs for the 3 chamber scenario.

Some drawings appear to be a single large cap drawn somewhat 2 dimensionally.

Other drawings appear to be a manifold that includes a stand pipe / riser that has 3 branches at the top that radiate slightly outward, then down into a circular doughnut shaped, perforated distribution register. I'm not sure how It was actually intended to look? But my first impression was that the operator best have some vaccum relief at the ready as soon as he kills the heat, cuz that manifold will surely suck up some grain solids and clog.

Not sure about the old drawings really but the tall single stand pipes with tall cap is much simpler to construct and maintain. Plus , it is my responsibility to not just straight up rip the design off. Frankly I feel like the old design has a bunch of unintentional flaws that may not necessarily have anything to do with the fabled whiskey it produced.

Smaug · 16 May 2021 01:18PM

This guy here for example.

I'm sorry but that plate design is a total shit show.

DonMateo · 16 May 2021 02:38PM

@smaug. Thanks for your comments. I have decided I am going to make some mega bubble caps and try two different distillation runs and use the mega caps only for the spirit run in a column. Right now I dont have my distillery built or my big boiler, sorry its not SD. But the solution is try teh mondo bubble caps and see if they work at a small scale and then think about the three chamber. I was wondering if this would work with a bain marie still running a standard charge of was, with 12" T sections stacked on top with a manifold type of arrangement as indicated in the latest drawing and over time you feed in the wash from the top and at a certain temperature point on the bottom chamber you drain it down. slowly. that way your using an existing boiler. Or alternative use a Bain Marie boiler on the botton and build your stack on top but start the bain marie boiler with water alone as you drain down the wash feeding in from the top. That might work better so that at the end of the day you get the whiskey. I am wondering about doing it this way as I would like to use existing gear that I have. Anyway its all pipe dreams for now I have to start my distillery building first, which should happen in a month or so.

Smaug · 16 May 2021 09:30PM

Well I'm sure the deeper liquid beds will have an influence.

Evidently, a key variable is the added pressure associated with the large beds on a classic 3 chamber? Also there appears to be some flavor enhancements associated with the archaic operating procedure?

Wish I could sample to gauge for myself. But I don't wanna taste the the bottle. I want it straight off the dick (No hommo)......

CothermanDistilling · 21 May 2021 11:45AM

Ordered Irving Hirsch's book, really enjoying it....

DonMateo · 21 May 2021 06:32PM

@cothermandistilling. Yes lots of great information in that book. Like a snapshot in time. I am determined to make a three chamber still some time in the future. In the mean time make some mega bubble caps and try deep bed distillation.

richard · 22 May 2021 05:53AM

How about this as a giant bubble plate

CothermanDistilling · 22 May 2021 12:10PM

Those work good, the vapor hitting the underside of the dome heats it and vaporizes some of the stream running off of the downcomer... those are discussed 5-6 years ago in a thread here somewhere...

grim · 22 May 2021 01:55PM

Copper ravioli cap

Smaug · 22 May 2021 03:44PM

Them boys at Corson completely misinterpreted the execution of theirs. They installed perforations around the perimeter that essentially discharged vapor straight upwards. This allows for an inordinate amount of vapor to blow by the liquid bed and completely bypass the phase change cycle that should occur.

Lots of smearing.

DonMateo · 27 May 2021 05:34PM

I am still fascinated by this design and I think it would make some amazing irish whiskeys and grain whiskeys with high oats contents. I just have to build my distillery first.

Sam · 31 May 2021 10:52AM

Nothing to do with three chamber stills but I did find the gin section in Hirsch's book interesting.

A while ago I posted about putting botanicals at the bottom of a column and running the vapour through a few plates which was widely dismissed (even though its very similar to how 4 pillars make their award winning gin).

I did try this a while ago but didn't have the wherewithal to put the botanicals in the column so instead put them in the boiler and it was a very clean, very flavourful gin, sadly the neutral wasn't the best quality so the resultant gin wasn't great. I did have to use an insanely large dose of botanicals though!

Finally I have some good quality neutral and a packed section I can put at the bottom to hold the botanicals so am going to give it another go, I might try adding the cream of tartar as well just to see if that makes a difference.

SingleMaltYinzer · 8 July 2021 06:14PM

Todd discussing how the 3 chamber still operates:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NL2vimfbog

Link to the Crampton & Tolman paper (thanks BA):

A Study Of The Changes Taken Place In Whiskey Stored In Wood (PDF)

A review of the spirit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSQMeoafMTM

DonMateo · 8 July 2021 09:38PM

The Tolman paper is fascinating. I really want one of those stills not for just making rye but for making old Irish whiskeys..

Smaug · 8 July 2021 11:03PM

Quite good.

Smaug · 9 July 2021 10:47AM

Since each chamber charge is shifted to the next chamber downward, does anyone know how he concludes he run is complete? In other words does each run extract ALL the alcohol in the apparatus or does he save some alcohol for each chamber by way of temp monitoring or the like?

grim · 9 July 2021 01:23PM

This was posted over at ADI -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi5WzVGBkuw

Operating 3 chamber in the Caribbean. One of the only original operating 3 chambers in the world.

Interesting description of operations. Overall this is a great 30 minutes. 5 minutes in if you don’t have time for the whole thing.

SingleMaltYinzer · 9 July 2021 02:13PM

Is the Vulcan a true three chamber still or just 2? (On the video go to 7:00)The way it shows it there are 3 chambers but one is a pre-heater so they only really use 2 for distilling. With the Leopold one there's 4 chambers with 3 for distilling and one as a pre-heater.

@Smaug said: does anyone know how he concludes he run is complete? In other words does each run extract ALL the alcohol in the apparatus or does he save some alcohol for each chamber by way of temp monitoring or the like?

I believe I remember that he runs them for a specific time with a uniform load. I am not sure of that one though.

I wonder how he loads it. Does he just start with beer in each chamber then run the first cycle longer? Or is it filled with water then he goes from there.

grim · 9 July 2021 04:54PM

You are either making cuts on every cycle, or collecting low wines for redistillation where cuts would be made.

lowball · 9 July 2021 05:35PM

Found this regarding the running of a Vulcan three chamber still:

Is It On The Test?—The Three Chambered Still @ Boston Apothecary

grim · 9 July 2021 05:55PM

Anyone with two thumpers want to just try the process? It’ll be pretty messy, but you can closely approximate this easily.

I'm inclined to weld four beer kegs on top of each other... :)

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