3 Chamber Still

punkin

pretty. Well done mate.

Smaug

@punkin said: pretty. Well done mate.

Cheers

grim

Ship it to me!!

Smaug

@grim said: Ship it to me!!

You were on the short list for sure.

Gotta manage the cost on the research for this one since the potential buyers are pretty limited.

SingleMaltYinzer

Dude that is awesome. Can't wait to try the results. Congrats.

DonMateo

I really want one.

grim

Hell I’d fly out to watch it run

Smaug

@grim said: Hell I’d fly out to watch it run

You have family down here somewhere don't you?

punkin

yes, he has you.

grim

I do - down in Sarasota, Orlando, Naples, West Palm.

crozdog

Fantastic work @Smaug

DonMateo

@crozdog mate. Did you get flooded out when the murray burst its banks. I was thinking about you mate.

crozdog

@DonMateo thanks for thinking of me mate. No I'm in Sydney, so missed all that (luckily)

Bolverk

I found an a dude on reddit firewater that built a hobby size 3 chamber. The thread is like a 1year old but this is the first small scale version I've seen.

Smaug

@Bolverk said: I found an a dude on reddit firewater that built a hobby size 3 chamber. The thread is like a 1year old but this is the first small scale version I've seen.

Any feedback on flavor profile?

Bolverk

He said the rye mash hes running through it has more oils and is more flavorful than the same mash double pot stilled.

Bolverk

Ok chatted with him... A few more pic of his build. He's also not using steam to drive it and the chambers are only 5l, and its sealed with flour paste.

Not that he's lying, I believe he thinks he's getting the results he thinks he is... but I can't see how he'd be getting any measurable benefits from system that a regular thumper/retort wouldn't provide. Maybe there's something significant about the order the 3 chamber is charged with eg: new beer, high beer, low beer, spent beer (using the term beer because wines don't fit)

I'm not trying to mean or cruel, I think it's super cool that he actually built it, I mean a functioning vertical double thumper/retort as he did is still awesome.

Smaug

No pressure at all with a flour paste seal so I would also say that he is not getting the same kind of heat extraction / "thermal degridation" found a a system capable of achieving pressure.

But yeah, a pretty cool build for a set of pots. My wife still gives me shit over the pot I stole to build the humper thumper.

Bolverk

I wonder if putting a constant pressure valve set for 4 psi +/- at the top of the column where it transitions to the lyne arm would allow for a smaller setup with less water column to generate the same pressures as the larger full size?

Haha! Doesn't she understand how cool it is though?

Smaug

@Bolverk said: Haha! Doesn't she understand how cool it is though?

Well,,,it was a pretty nice pot given as a wedding present.

Bolverk

Fair lol

Bolverk

Hey @Smaug,

Just saw your video on on the 3 chamber, looks fantastic!

You said it should be able to process 300g per shift. That's damn near a full barrel of 55% per shift... seems like it might even be good for a second product line.

Just curious, any thoughts on making a bigger one?

Smaug

@Bolverk said: Hey Smaug,

Just saw your video on on the 3 chamber, looks fantastic!

You said it should be able to process 300g per shift. That's damn near a full barrel of 55% per shift... seems like it might even be good for a second product line.

Just curious, any thoughts on making a bigger one?

Yes sir.

Each chamber (total volume) is 18 gallons. Allow for a bit of head space and you're looking at 12 to 15 gallon charges per chamber. So really just about the size of a hobby still in spite of all the girth.

However, with the preheat functionality and the mini steam generator that is capable of producing 24,000 watts (or house steam from a proper steam boiler) its barely a matter of minutes after liquid transfer occurs that the system is at running temps again. The automated control system will ensure a very timely operation with respect to liquid transfer and ensuring that the vent system is open and closed before and after liquid transfer occurs. The operator will also have the choice of determining their preferred set points and can save those set points in the recipe module on the controller.

But yessir, the whole point of this recipe development size is to showcase the design and indeed build the larger production still. Very likely 250 to 300 gallon chambers.

DonMateo

My three chamber still is going to be 750mm diameter and about 850mm high. I am about to order the bolted flanges.

Smaug

@DonMateo said: My three chamber still is going to be 750mm diameter and about 850mm high. I am about to order the bolted flanges.

A total of 850? Or each Chamber?

DonMateo

850mm each chamber. That should give me 350l in each chamber. So I call fill up the top three chambers with 900l of wash. My fermenters are 1200l and I am fermenting about 900l at a time. Still by the time my tank making mate gets around to making it it will be 2024. I should write to santa claus first.

Bolverk

Curious, what do you think is the smallest viable size 3 chamber would be for a small craft distillery product wise? The recipe development size is pretty capable, is it too small to run as an actual production still?

DonMateo

You have to calculate what your production is going to be and how much time you want to spend on a run. There is a podcast on how to run one of these things as well as a lot of descriptions on how to run one of these things. The reason why I mentioned this is that with one of these things you have to watch it all day and monitor what is happening in each chamber. You could automate it for sure and that will help. For me the question is not automation it is what is the size of my fermentation capacity. Where I live labor is cheap, a good smart worker costs about US$3 per hour. Its not like the US although when I have one my three chamber still I am going to be doing most of the runs.

So looking at my size I want to be able to strip 1000l of wash in 6 hours, that will produce about 200l of low wines. If I run it in a single pass configuration that should produce 100l if final spirit ( which I could use to fill a 100l barrel in one day). but that's with one person watching it all day including during heat up.

If you take the recipe development size your going to get through more chambers, probably a chamber every 45 minutes with each chamber being about 60 litres, So in a 8 hour day you can get through 480l of wash in 8 hours and you will get about 100l of low wines or 50 litres of final spirit. You should think about what are your barrel sizes that your going to use and how long you want to spend working your three chamber still to fill a single barrel of what size.

There is a difference running one of these stills and and doing a stripping or a spirit run on a pot still. When you run a pot still you turn it on, put a timer on, come back when your 10 minutes before the run starts, do your head cut and let it run while you do other things. Its a lot less labor intensive.

When your sizing equipment for a craft distillery everything should be matched standard sizes of your main gear. ie a you should have 400l fermenters if your running a 400l stripping still and a 200l spirit still. I had to increase the size of my small BM still so that I can using as the match as a spirit still for my BM 1200l boiler. So my 1200BM boiler will take 900 to 1000l of wash and produce 200 to 220l of low wines ( if my tank making mate ever finishes it). Those low wines I have to dilute under 30% ABV, I needed 330l of capacity in my spirit still. So I had to take a 240l and add another 150mm height on the top section to get to 330l. Now its the matching pair to my stripping still. Working back up the process, that means my fermenters are 1200l, my mash tuns will me 1200l, and when I have my three chamber still built I will size it to run of 1000l ferments. If your just running a small three chamber still figure out what your daily production will be i.e. wash processing capacity, and size your downstream equipment accordingly. Always be mindful of the fact that your main goal is to fill barrels. You don't want it too small so that you have to spend 4 x 8 hr days to fill one 100l barrel. That will get very very tiring and boring very quickly. Unless you are on a super tight budget or have some child slave labor you can employ. I am thinking of using my kids for child slave labor or maybe some of the local poor kids. OR trust everything to automation. Automation will work but the issue I have with that is I vary my recipes a lot and so each run behaves slightly differently. Theoretically automation should be able to adjust for that. But automating everything also has a price, in control valves and electronic bits and pieces that also go "Ping". (the local poor kids thing was joke).

Bolverk

That all makes sense, thank you.

DonMateo

No worries mate. Thanks to @Smaug for keeping the forum up and running. I love contributing. This has inspired me to do a post on barrel sizes, for the beginners here.