Today in the Shed

punkin

That's the clearest mash i've ever seen... :D

CothermanDistilling

No one to hold the camera ;-) that is a pic of the peg I put in to hold the stirrer in place for one handed drill operation...

CothermanDistilling

The chilling loop... video uploading to YouTube now

CothermanDistilling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPiG94caulI

jacksonbrown

It'll be faster if you single pass and transfer into the fermenter rather than recirc like that. It'll use a lot less water too.
You should keep an eye out for a cheap mono pump as well.

grim

Right on!

CothermanDistilling

that is my fermenter this time around, LOL

I learned a lot, will help me decide what I want to get for production equipment down the road, but I am pretty sure with a better pump, the bigger HX, possible steam injection and maybe a tote-fermenter like @grim has, I can have a paid helper go through 4-500lb of corn in a week.... first on the list, though is a better stirrer that has a real propeller and is fixed...

Knafs

The Mighty Mixer is a nice example of a fixed stirrer set up.

grim

Just pick up a Lightnin' clamp on from eBay.

grim

In the interim, just pick up the nicest thinset mixing paddle they have at Home Depot or Lowes (or a tile store for something nicer).

For a high speed mixer - the impeller needs to be relatively small if it has an aggressive attack, if it is larger, the blades need to be only slightly off the rotation, or you'll just rip them off.

CothermanDistilling

That soap mixer looks nice, but a bit pricey for something I may soon outgrow..

Oh, I ripped my blades right off... welded em on better and stronger.... but won't last too many more times.... I am looking at a couple 1/4 to 1.0 HP models on ebay, liking a 4:1 1hp one that is at $170 right now... but not variable...

grim

Our mash tank agitator is only 3/4hp. It has a 20" paddle - but...

The shaft is 1" solid stainless, and we have a 25:1 gear reduction spinning about 70 rpm. It's a torque monster.

I wouldn't spent a lot - maybe try to find a gast air motor with a clamp and chuck - and just try to find a suitable shaft/impeller - whether it's the thinset mixer or something from the surplus bin.

grim

Or repurpose a jet-ski impeller - you guys must have a ton of those down there.

grim

56 minutes left - buy it.

Mixer Propeller Impeller Agitator Blade @ eBay

Just use a stainless shaft, cut to size.

CothermanDistilling

@grim said: Or repurpose a jet-ski impeller - you guys must have a ton of those down there.

Crossed my mid numerous times.. I have 2 jet ski motors sitting on the shelf... Klotz Castor Bean Bourbon...

OK, will throw a bid at that impeller, looks like a good deal... and way studier than mine...

the bourbon mash this morning, pitched about a cup of dried redstar yeast last night at 109F (wanted 100, but oh, well...) sitting at 98 now

jacksonbrown

I wonder if you could skip the milling stage of you used the correct High Shear Mixer?

It would be more expensive but you might not need a mill. It might need a grain softening stage in the mashing process.

punkin

back to back quad batches of beers. Both milds under 4%.

CothermanDistilling

@grim said: 56 minutes left - buy it.

got it... I could get used to you being my eBay butler

grim

High shear would work to tear apart the grain, but only if it was in suspension and you were able to ensure a thorough and long enough mixing time for the entire tank to be shredded. You would need a relatively large shear mixer with some considerable horsepower. You'd need to cook for very long, for the grain to get soft enough for the mixer to break it apart.

Even then, the tradeoff might not be economical, as you would need to account for the additional cook/processing time, energy, etc.

The fact that we don't see ethanol producers doing it, tells me there are probably problems with the approach.

A shear type mixer with flour or processed corn meal - would absolutely reduce processing time.

With an undersized shear mixer - I could see all the corn sitting at the bottom like a rock, while the shear mixer just spun and spun and spun in the middle of the tank.

grim

A piece of whole corn - after a number of hours in the cooking/mashing process - will still be a piece of relatively hard corn when you get to pitch temp. That skin is very protective.

Kapea

Would a worm gear (auger) work instead of blades?

CothermanDistilling

Ahh, the luck of having an idle group of guys out front of the shop when you need some backbreaking work done... a nice crisp $100 bill to tear up 400 square feet of asphalt..

Kapea

Florida limerock base course. Ran about a gozillion in place density tests in that shit back in the day...

dad

I don't cook grains any more. At least not the way most describe. I get the water to boiling, turn the heat off, add the ground grain and stir until gelitanized. Let the temps drift down and do the enzymes as it hits the right temp. As I add the enzymes I stir for ten minutes or so. Let rest overnight and pitch when temp is right.

This is working well with corn, oats and rice. I realize the drift down cooking may not work for harder grains. But rice is pretty damn hard.

I've been testing different grinds side by side on dif grains! This week was rice, again...

I make the fine grind as close to flour as possible and the coarse grind about like rough corn meal.

A flour grind will gelitanize faster (less cooking) and will settle out faster in the fermentor for better racking than a course grind.

Rice ferments this week...trying to make everything exactly the same, except for the grind. Two pounds per gallon, a teaspoon of DADY per gallon, two ounces per gallon of stillage, as nutrients, saved from a previous run.

The SG dif was 1.075 vs 1.067 for the coarse. The flour grind always has a higher SG.

The fine grind was fermenting well and at 24 hours had already started to separate. It already had a clear layer in the middle.

The course grind has no layers, but a more vigorous fermentation. In twelve hours the coarse grind blew the top off the fermentor.

This makes no sense to me because the ingredients are the same in every way. Could the extra sugar of the fine grind be slowing the yeast?

I loose a lot of liquid when I separate the coarse bits from going in the still. Yields will be almost exactly the same, gallon for gallon that hits the still.

These experiments aren't for yield, but for prep going into the still. Trying to decide how to rack/filter out the solids and how much solids you can put into a direct element still.

punkin

In Australia the currency for that sort of stuff is 'the carton' or 'the slab' depending on your state. A universal currency i would think and is used for any sort of work from legal advice to tradesmen to street deals. Used as a punishment, a bet stake or a sweetener.
It avoids the unpleasant situation of taking cash, which most people would see as a bribe, corruption or taking advantage of your company. The carton however is a friendly recognition or thank you in the eyes of joe public and can usually be explained away if caught by the bosses. Bit hard when there is a pallet of cartons, but still doable in the right hands.

The Carton Rules @ Minetalk

Ideally, one individual on site will be particularly diligent about the policing of the cartons process, and shall be designated ‘Constable Carton.’ Their considered opinion shall be taken into account to determine whether the offence is in fact cartonable.

Kapea

Always with the rules. Constraints on everything.

We say,

punkin

Gotta have rules otherwise it's chaos. So long as everyone knows what they are it works.

dad

Carton...

Middle East it is bakseesh...but very institutionalized! Old Russia yadka...it was cigarettes and Playboys

jacksonbrown

So I sent an email to the suppliers.
They do indead work and they are already being used for that application. I asked about a tank with a recirc line and an inline mixer (pump) on it.
It even generates enough flow for CIP, no other pump required.
He said it can blitz the grain no worries but foreign bodies that tend to be present in grains wear the impellers out very quick.
This means they have to be machined out of special stainless which gets exy.

AZZA1984

So I getting myself a 2ed hand StillDragon and making a keg into a perfect boiler. And this is going to be my new shed. Wish me luck today.