Introducing the NEW +++ ProCap36 +++ Product Line-Up!

captainshooch

Fantastic Larry. I would not be surprised if you notice when increasing the power and hence the plate activity, you will increase the output rate without sacrificing ABV because of the increased reflux per plate.

CothermanDistilling

nice...

punkin

Well done guys, thanks. Can't wait to see the 12" in action.

grim

8"CD, Procap, 18KW, 20lph, 80%, and it ain't even close to max.

Holy cow, all I gotta say, holy cow. Would love to see what a couple more KW can do, hopefully you are recording round 2 as well. Based on the bubble action, it'll probably swallow up another 20% without even flinching.

Fantastic.

Smaug

Water feeding the condensers was 90 degrees Fahrenheit btw.

The distillery was/is a sweat box this time of year.

grim

12" - If it scales geometrically, 40kw, 44lph. That might be a 4 hour run time, including heat up, on a 1000 liter 10% charge. Realistically, still alone, I think you can hit this with a sub-10hp (450kbtu) steam boiler, maybe even less. Big question is how much additional efficiency is gained because the steam jacket boilers are insulated, it's got to be substantial over the single wall boilers.

Smaug

You would think so Grim. The jacket makes the exterior cool as a cucumber.

Sunshine

The video is awesome! Very impressing! I so would have liked to taste that rum, too... ;)

googe

Good stuff fellas, nice to.see some visuals, no better way to do it!. smaug, this was a single wash run?. Do you have any comparisons with sieve/bubble plates of the same type run/setup to compare with?. I can see what you mean about the power problem, the plates look like there sleepy, all part of learning how to run them hey, theory doesn't count compared to a physical run!. In your opinion, what is the mechanical factor making them faster than other plates?. I applaud your testing!!!.

Smaug

Hi googe,

I reckon they allow for complete aspiration. There is no back pressure at all it seems. The plates thus far seem to be able to take as much heat as can be tbrown at them.

One still has to be mindful not to get careless and drag tails up prematurely by throwing an inordinate amount of heat at the boiler.

That would an operator error.

googe

Like equal flow, vapour/fluid. That's what it's all about I guess!. They seem to be doing the job right. Like you say, all plates have a limit!. The dream is to be able to have a plate system to run from 1% to endless %. It's all good progress!.

grim

Big trays don't have nearly the action that small trays do, the ones that I've seen that do, tend to have the action localized to the cap areas, and not evenly distributed throughout the tray. Some would argue that we all operate our smaller diameter columns too aggressively, well into the spray regime. But there are still others that would argue that running in spray could be more efficient (especially in this design, where the walls become active area, with significant surface area).

Nothing wrong with sleepy action, this could result in some additional flavor coming over, if that's what you want. Could be exactly what you want. And while they might be appear to be sleepy, look at the output speed they are getting.

Being able to handle more power is interesting, but I still think the biggest benefit is that this cap and tray design allows for a much wider turndown ratio than a traditional design, this means more flexibility in how you choose to operate. Whether it's slow and easy, or pushing max power, you've got that choice, and it's going to give you more flexibility with the product.

I'm sure if you looked hard enough you could find some a study from some crazy Germans and the University of Bubbelcappen that show that the wash must be treated gently, very gently, as any excess agitation will let angry flavors through. This is also why we don't distill while listening to punk music, the distillate is much too harsh and disrespectful. Sleepy isn't necessarily bad.

googe

I didn't mean sleepy as bad, just an observation to smaugs comment on it. Spray on a plate is usually not good, dependent on the area around the plate. I'd prefer a rolling action for flavor, and a fast low bubble for nuet. They seem to be able to perform both tasks to a degree, which is positive.

Smaug

I didn't think you meant sleepy as a negative googe. I did not either.

My feeling is that as long as phase change is occurring and any bubble action is not splashing on the above plate then the un taxed behavior is quite good.

Certainly with 12 caps and 12 corresponding downcomers there is very good distribution of liquid as well as very minimal (if any) entrainment occurring.

Myles

The old discussion about fluid flow across the plate now seem obsolete. With these procaps you can design fluid flow any way you like.

Just wait till the next evolution hits the shelf. Single 2" or 3" ProCaps on a sub 5" plate. The other guys will be shuting up shop

Ok for commercial intrests big caps may be of no value, but for the fruit brandy folks it is an option.

Lloyd

The numbers are only now starting to come in on the ProCaps as we close in on the first 1000 being in the hands of actual distillers and the feedback has been overwhelmingly positive.
The enhanced run times, production speed and the broader power range is just a side benefit of these caps - the original goal of utilizing more of the plate by removing the downcomer footprint from the active plate area led to a complete redesign that now allows the bubble cap, for the very first time, to breathe without constraints. Every vapor path has been opened up for maximum flow and every ProCap can shed more reflux liquid than it can produce.

Try it. Test it. Wring it out. Report your results.

brewsmith

Not sure if this has been brought up in the past 9 pages, but does anyone know if there is room on a 4" bubble and/or perf plate to swap out the downcomer with a procap? I know the hole would have to be bored out to a larger diameter but don't know if it would hit the bubble caps or cover up a portion of the perforations. If it can be done it seems like this would be a great way to increase the active plate area.

FullySilenced

Not a bad idea but is the bore of the procap equal to one std SD downcomer...?

if so might work if its smaller might choke the plate a little?

I had thought of that for the SD ss perf plate... one pro cap instead of the downcomer...

but none in my hands to fuss with..

brewsmith

Yea, that would require some testing and power regulation to figure out, but if one of the SD fellas could check the diameters for fitting purposes, I'll gladly buy three to try out on my 1 bubble and 2 perf plates, then just build out a 3 procap 4" plate if issues do arise :D

Lloyd

I just played with some 4" standard plates and a mix of caps and I don't believe it will work.
The hole spacing on the standard 4" plate is too close.

FullySilenced

@Lloyd once told me this:

Hole size in SD original plate is 16.2mm Hole size in SD ProCap36 plate is 23.2mm

A 23.5mm hole saw works OK if designing your own plate.

divide the mm by 25.4 and you will get an inch dimension in a decimal point...

have fun

FS

Lloyd

I think the question was is it possible to enlarge a standard 4" SD plate to accept a ProCap and I don't think its possible. You are right, FS, it needs to be made from scratch if mixing caps.

FullySilenced

HMM I asked Larry if he carried blank plates in all sizes he said no.. Might be a need to add thing...

Lloyd

Yep, my last go at having plates produced I did get a few 12" plates made with no holes.
As the inventory wears down and needs to be replaced I'd like to add 4", 5", 6" and 8" no hole plates. I can also supply the hole saws for both kinds of caps.
It adds a little complexity to the inventory but I'd like to see more people being able to design their own plates and even mixing caps on a plate.

Sadly, no hole plates cost as much as plates with holes and I still have to meet the minimum order. I wanted 50 each of the 4" and 5" plates with no holes but the order wasn't big enough at the time, we typically have to order 100 to 600 plates per size (the larger the size the less that needs to be ordered). The factory organizes our total request to order the copper from the mill. The mill is the one that dictates the minimum order and getting 4" plates punched out of sheet that was meant for 12" plates would have resulted in unacceptable waste.

Its on the list, FS. Just hasn't happened yet.

FullySilenced

Thanks for the reply

Myles

3 procaps on a 4" plate looks good on paper. I did look at mixing caps on the same plate. However, I think it will only be worth doing on bigger plates.

FullySilenced

@Lloyd when you punch the larger plates punch smaller ones in the open areas of possible or maybe switch to the same process the filter discs are made from. ECM just an idea multiple sizes in the same run but less waste

brewsmith

Thanks guys, the whole idea of making custom plates seems like a whole 'nother avenue for this community to explore now that we have the option of three different varieties

grim

Smaug did you ever get any feedback from Citrus and the larger elements/higher wattage?

CothermanDistilling

yeah.... they were running 4 4500W elements, how was 5 5500W ones???

Did they throw in a 5th, hell, put a T on the drain and put in a 6th! people want to know!