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Introducing the NEW +++ ProCap36 +++ Product Line-Up!

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  • Yes reflux condensors will be the stumbling block for 4" systems. I have a few of the super condensors ordered with my new sea freight order being assembled now.

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  • I would highly recommend it!! Plus maybe a super shotgun condenser in the future as well

  • @captainshooch said: Test run is over and all I can say is, FARKING AMAZING!!...
    ..... I had to run both the deph and cond. at full flow to keep up.

    I've been using a 4" x 510mm product condenser on my 5" (because it arrived postal-damaged and couldn't be sold) and although the spirit came out cool there was sometimes vapor escaping from the surge breaker. I'm going to put some kind of turbulators in the pipes to force the vapors to contact the walls of the pipes. I really am pushing that fast!
    I added a few strands of SS scrubby to the 5" dephlem and that really helped its efficiency. A few strands in the product condenser should fix the escaping vapors, too.

    @captainshooch thanks for the feedback. The first trials with the ProCaps were shockers as I didn't expect so much improvement in plate efficiency but every tiny detail about the ProCap was carefully engineered to allow it to breathe without restriction.

    And if that was not enough, the final piece will be ready soon as I've approved the adjustable downcomers to finally begin production about a week ago (after three failed attempts to produce acceptable prototypes). The dies were hardened, production has begun and they should arrive to me in a week to 10 days. Its a great, low cost option for being able to adjust the fluid level on the plate. I tested the prototypes at varying heights and found ~1" to be too much as it was hard to get the cups to load without blowing through. Anything up to about 3/4" seemed to work just fine.

    But I couldn't find an advantage, maybe others will, with having a deeper fluid bed. Product take-off speed and quality, to me, seemed to be very much the same with or without the extra plate fluid. I did notice a sharper hearts to tails transition though.

  • @Lloyd no worries mate. Always willing to share my experiences. I feel like I am having to learn how to drive all over again. Challenging and exiting all at the same time. I am game and willing to keep experimenting...I look forward to the next few runs to actually get the full picture.

  • Suspect the deeper fluid bed will allow you to stack heads tighter, but only in situations where you have adequate boiler volume to do so.

  • I agree @grim, 6 x 5" plates with 40L of 6% in the boiler and the bottom 2 glasses started fogging almost immediately, meaning the column was running out of ethanol to work with. And that was without the adjustable downcomers added.

  • Ha... you will come around to my idea of convoluted tubed condensers eventually...

  • Sooooo...Michael...are u gonna make me one???

  • A few more details about the ProCap run. They are very forgiving and can be run slow at 4L/hr or medium or flat out fast around 10+ L/hr. Obviously the faster you go the more chances of smearing. With 2 5500w elements running around 12.5 amps (approx.) each it does work out to about 1.5kw per plate like @Lloyd was saying.

    I do not see any advantage of adding a fourth cap to each plate in a 4" column as 3 seems to be plenty fast and active.

  • I like the idea of convoluted condenser tubing, it's used all over the HVAC industry, but from a cost perspective, is it more economical to simply add additional condenser tubes or longer condenser tubes? The convoluted tubes add quite a bit of manufacturing complexity, since the tubes need to be formed or flared to allow for the tops and bottoms to be attached to the condenser heads, since butt joints won't work. I've seen some wildly convoluted copper tubes used in water to refrigerant exchangers that would be a nightmare build into a tube in shell, but would probably perform brilliantly.

  • Who's to say if a 4th plate would not improve the taste characteristics .. or add to additional production rates say 33% potential increase? All that in a 4" column

  • StillDragon - ProCap36 Adjustable Downcomer Add-On Demo Run

    Watch @Lloyd's Demo of the NEW Adjustable Downcomer Add-On for the ProCap36!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tPdGR8k6Fs

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  • Now that's awesome. Guess I better put an order in for the adjustable downcomer bits and a super deph :D

  • on the convoluted product condenser theme, I am going to try just putting a spiral of copper and/or stainless wire in the tubes to slow the liquid down.. wind a tight coil to get the copper a little hard, stretch it out, then twist smaller just enough to slide in the tube and let go, and hopefully it will spring hold good contact to wall, have a little bend at the top to keep it from falling down...

    now if we can adjust the downcomer to the point of essentially bypassing the plate... while running....

  • oooohhhh....

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    microgroove tubing is the latest thing in high efficiency heat exchangers...

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  • Yeah I like that idea @CothermanDistilling we can call it the CC, short for cotherman condenser, or convoluted condenser or something along those lines. Or even the CM short for the cotherman mod or convoluted mod.. :D

  • edited July 2014

    Saw a tip on another site about an easy to make copper turbulator. I tried it, worked beautifully. Take a piece of 12 gauge solid copper electrical wire, cut to length, flatten most of the wire to create a ribbon of desired width, make a loop at the top to hold it in place, drop in from the top of the condenser.

    Getting it to 1/8th inch wide is relatively easy with a standard hammer and something hard and flat, getting it to near 1/4 inch side takes a little bit of blacksmithing (anvil and 3lb sledge).

    Cutting thin sheet with snips might be a bit easier, but length is going to be based on sheet length you have available, and sheet is expensive.

    Flattened 12 gauge copper wire twists into a ribbon very easily, but you need to be careful to keep the spacing even.

  • Something like this i posted a few years back? I made this in like 2 minutes to express a concept but a twisted ribbon ... this one fit a StillDragon 4" dephlegmator at that time wasn't designed as a show piece .. but i just held one end in a vise and twisted it with a pair of vice grips on the opposite end.. couple a turns in this case very little restriction..

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  • edited July 2014

    Yeah exactly the same concept - knock down any possibility of laminar vapor flow. But that's only half the battle, the stuff Cotherman is talking about uses the convolutions for second purpose, increased surface area.

    You'll get a little bit of that just from the occasional contact in the tube and with condensate, but nowhere near the same.

    The damn things work though.

  • I am going to try some stainless scrubbies in the standard condensers for a start

  • New video is great, very interesting to see the impact of liquid level on the tray operation. From what I can see it looks like there is a sweet spot by plate height.

  • I guess it would all depend on what product you were running... though Grim

  • To me, the third plate up from the bottom seems about right. The adjustable downcomer (ADC?) was set at 1/2". With all the splashing going on the fluid level was about 3/8+" and was producing a very nice frothy bed of bubbles.

  • Oh, sorry I didn't mention it earlier...
    In the video, the adjustable downcomers were set taller at the bottom and incrementally less tall going up the column.

    The voice saying, "I'm going to quit my job" was @Manofconstantsorrow who walked in during filming. He has some menial job jetting around the world helping to keep nuclear reactors safe or some such nonsense :)) Yes, I checked, he does not glow in the dark.
    It was a joy for us to have him visit for a couple of days and he probably had no idea he'd be put to work breaking down and reassembling a 5" Crystal Dragon. But I'll take free labor however I can find it!

    The ProCaps with flow directors and adjustable downcomers should open new ideas when more and more artisans begin using them. The feedback so far from @captainshooch is very positive. Up to 10L/H on a 4" still. That's mind boggling but its also pushing the limits of production not quality, exactly what you'd want to do when testing the limits of your still. Even so, that would make for a fast and high quality strip. It certainly breaks per-conceived barriers.
    It makes me think that I might not be running my 5" CD hard enough but how can anyone complain with 6L/H of good high proof hearts?

  • Indeed I was pushing hard just to see what they can do. What started as a spirit run test quickly became a stripping run. I could not flood them.

  • @captainhooch's video will be up in the next couple of hours, it always takes ages to first convert it to proper YouTube-HD format, upload and post-process.

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  • Bingo!
    Removing limitations is just so cool.
    After the first few development prototypes and things started to work I noticed a greatly enhanced takeoff rate while maintaining high quality product. I reported my findings to the SD core and there were mixed signals from everyone because none of it made much sense, it flew in the face of everything that we knew. We chalked it up to me working in 5" but that didn't quite equate in the performance boost. So I built a 4" ProCap column and doubled the production speed that I'd previously got with the classic SD caps.
    Mine you, ProCaps are more expensive to produce and the budget minded are still very well served by the classic SD bubble caps and plates but for those with the extra bucks to spend its a great way to get Pro results from a small artisan still.

    A few 8" and at least one 12" ProCap still will be coming online over the next few months. Their results should be nothing less than astounding.

  • edited July 2014

    @grim said: Saw a tip on another site about an easy to make copper turbulator. I tried it, worked beautifully. Take a piece of 12 gauge solid copper electrical wire, cut to length, flatten most of the wire to create a ribbon of desired width, make a loop at the top to hold it in place, drop in from the top of the condenser.

    I have tried this in the past myself. Now though I prefer to reduce the size of the vapour tubes to 12mm or 15mm diameter instead of using the bigger cores with turbulators. If that still can't keep up with your power input, then 1 alternative is to switch everything round, and put the coolant in the (smaller 6mm) cores with the vapour in the shell.

    I suspect it is personal choice, as I have never tried a side by side test of small cores vs big cores + turbulators.

  • StillDragon - 4" Crystal Dragon with 4 ProCap36 Bubble Plates - Test Run

    Watch @captainshooch perform a test run with his 4" Crystal Dragon with 4 of the NEW ProCap36 Bubble Plates at incredible take-off speed!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs8W-RmEzLI

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