The Big Vodka Thread

captainshooch

@Philter nice find, saved it to my documents.

Philter

It's definitely worth reading twice. One thing I don't understand is why you can't re-run the same spirit back through multiple times..

Lloyd

@Philter I'm guilty of re-running the same spirit through multiple times.
Then I do a clean sweep and discard everything and start fresh again.
For me it has more to do with being too lazy to label the collection jars and because the collection bottles suddenly become more valuable than the low-low-low wines they contain. Just me though.
More room, more bottles, more labels would fix that but lazy distilling has no cure except "toss and clean the bottles". And as I move from one distinct product (like bourbon) to another (say Gin) it complicates things and as I said I'm lazy.

Have been known to throw all the "whatevers" in the boiler for one final run and so far I've never been disappointed :)

A clean sweep to rid all the leftovers and wash out all the bottles is a good thing sometimes.

nvnovrts

@cunnyfunt said: captainshooch lol at that filtered wash. Awesome job

That is a huge difference! How does the filtered VS non filtered finished product compare? I Do a double rack and it comes off pretty clean.

nvnovrts

@RedDoorDistillery, are you using gas or a pump to move the product through the filter? How much do you loose per pass through the filter? How often do you need to change the charcoal? I'm looking at a couple pumps but have concerns over the product eating the rubber parts. pumping from the bottom is the way the big boys run their filtering program.

Rocky_Creek

@punkin - I have a large volume of aged whiskey that I was planning on converting to vodka, do you think carbon would clean the wood taste out of it?

punkin

I don't know mate, i've never used carbon.

I do know that redistilling only pulls out the good bits from the barrell ageing, the vannilla and maple notes. The raw wood taste stays there and is really offputting. That's pulled off at 95+% through a VM.

Rocky_Creek

OK, if I understand then the product is not bad but whats left in the still is crap. Yes?

captainshooch

@punkin +1 on the raw wood taste stays there, once tainted with raw wood, IMHO it is done... re-distilling does not seem to help at all.

captainshooch

Yet another update on the dextrose, ran 22 gals at 12-13% thru the 10 plates and the whole shed smelled like peaches or some friuty wash, kept almost 2 gals of hearts and it is good enough as is, however, I plan on doing a second run with another wash same as first one and then combinig the 2 for a final run. I will update .. I am starting to get to really like this strain.. it does all it is supposed to do. I give it a 10 no issues so far.

jbierling

@captainshooch said: If I need to, I use a simple ss funnel

Nice funnel, where did you find it?

cunnyfunt

@nvnovrts said: That is a huge difference! How does the filtered VS non filtered finished product compare? I Do a double rack and it comes off pretty clean.

Not sure if that was directed to me but I have only ever used Turbo Clear, time and temp to clear my wash so this is all excitingly new to me.

captainshooch

@nvnovrts filtered wash is extremely clear and smells equally "fruity", the gallon sample in the fridge is still cloudy and likely takes a long time which is so far the only negative issue I have encountered with this dextrose experiment and the 1/2 micron filter is only good for one run and it cost $20.00

captainshooch

@jbierling PM sent.

Lloyd

You guys are making me rethink the need to bother with clearing a wash.
The logic is simple enough - clear the wash to almost sparkling to avoid any yeast or suspended solids from burning or scorching with either direct flame or electric element. (The latest boiler orders are for those heated by steam or bain marie because that issue is moot.)

This must be a cut above my typically great results because I tend to do my stripping run with cloudy wash.

I do try to rack off most of the sediment while transferring it from the fermenter to the boiler but if a little slops in I don't fret it much.

I can always get a liter or two of great stuff in the middle of the stripping run as keepers but the rest will need to be added to the spirit run.

Cudos to those that can take a wash to vodka in a single pass but I don't think it is possible with a single still and single run. Even the big outfits have figured out that stripping the wash/mash by simple pot still and feeding that to 100+ plates is still going to have a slight taint of the base ingredients. The goal is to have an end product that is worthy of your expense and effort.

A neutral oriented wash/mash that is stripped and then rectified by a multi-plate (often dozens of plates or more) or a very, very tall packed column is the norm for vodka production.

Add carbon filtering at the end of this and you have the true neutral that we seek for our flavoring/gin/panty dropper/etc... experiments.

Again, a true neutral is damn hard to get. Bubble caps, SPP, steel wool packing or whatever else cannot seem to get us there because some flavor will always carry over.

You and I are in this together and we can solve this puzzle of how to get from sugar or grain to a completely neutral distillate. I don't think it is possible to do it without carbon filtering but I'm willing to learn if you enlighten me.

captainshooch

@Lloyd +1 on a true neutral is damn hard to get. Even after running a wash thru 10 plates (theoretically 11 if you count the boiler) for a stripping run, and then running it again a second time for a spirit run, I still have a slight hint of the source, grains and yeast used etc..but it is very pleasant and worthy of my efforts. By experimenting with EC1118 and dextrose, I am hoping to get a bit closer to that hard to get true neutral. I am learning as we go. So far I have not carbon filtered anything from the DASH 2 10 plate. It is good enough for me as the remaining flavours are ever so slight it can be used for making the flavoured drinks. I keep thinking of Stoli Gold with the suttle flavors. Maybe a wheat wash with EC1118 will be the winning combo. We'll see.

Lloyd

@captainshooch even Stoli Gold has a bite of flavor, which I like.
I have never, not once, bought a truly flavorless neutral from a liquor store in any country that I've ever been in.
My conviction is that we, as personal artisan distillers, get closer to it than any big commercial enterprise. We can operate our stills and sanction the heart of hearts but the big boys cannot afford to do that.

The fractions that I can produce with ease are not available for sale on any store shelf. But these rare fractions come at the cost of doing it myself and not seeking a profit by needing to sell everything that emerges from the product condenser.

Every strip or spirit run seems to produce a "golden" fraction that is too special for me to personally consume, I save it for very special occasions or for Tan's Apple Pie. Out of 10 to 16 or more collection jars we are talking about only 1 or 2 golden jars. I know you guys have found this. Its the pure gold and is too precious to blend - trust me, I know that blending this fraction to lesser fractions is a big mistake.

All the rest is very drinkable but the golden fraction(s) are simply too precious to not mine them and keep them separate.

The golden fractions do not need carbon filtering. The rest could probably benefit from the treatment.

captainshooch

@Lloyd so true the fact that we can achieve a great product because we are not so burdened by the cost minded commercial ops mentality. I don't recon I'll ever buy another distilled spirit, other than some specialty stuff, like a bottle I was recently given for christmas, Basil Haydens bourbon...man, that stuff is Gooood!!! but as with other prime spirits over 50.00 a fifth, ouch! But just like you said, it has to good enough to sqatisfy our personal needs, wants and likes, and the 10 plate dragon sure has taken me a giant leap in that direction :D

punkin

There's commercial members here and elsewhere that are making the best spirit they can. Hobby distillers are not the only artisans.

captainshooch

@punkin I did not mean to put down any commercial guys, just meant the we do not have as much a burden as they do since we do not have to turn a profit. We do it solely for the end result at whatever price it comes. I would not want to be in their shoes having to balance cost/price/ etc.. Kudos to all those who have taken that plunge and ventured into commercial distilleries, it is not an easy road.

punkin

I know mate, just thought i would make the distinction that not all commercial distillers are in it for profits. Quite a few are in it for the love of the creation and are doing their dream job (or turning their passion into a means to support themselves). These are the artisans who are producing the very best spirits they can.

captainshooch

@punkin yup you are right, they are the little guys doing it for passion first, a living second, I admire them most! and we are lucky to have several on here who are open to sharing their knowledge and making it easier for us to figure things out. You really have to have a passion to pursue a venture in commercial distilling knowing goverment is going to tax you to death, and leave u a small profit margin. Again, my hats off to all whom have taken the plunge!

captainshooch

It has been brought up to my attention that I may have inadvertedly misled you on a recent post. When describing the first run of the dex/1118 experiment, I mentioned that the results were "good enogh as is" and it may have lead you to belive that it is a good vodka, however what I meant to say is, the recipe, fermenting and stripping methods yielded results that are very satisfactory "as is" and I see no need to change things. Now is onwards to attempt to duplicate batch one and see how it turns out.

Rocky_Creek

Just ordered some panela, if one used that for the source of vitamins and minerals in s sugar wash, what do you think the minimum effective percentage might be compared to the sugar in it.

Smaug

Hi Rockey_Creek, Can you say that one more time please

@Rocky_Creek said: Just ordered some panela, if one used that for the source of vitamins and minerals in s sugar wash, what do you think the minimum effective percentage might be compared to the sugar in it.

jbierling

I think he meant a similar question to what I had. If you add nutrients to a normal sugar wash and you want to depend on panela doing that, what percentage of panela to sugar would you use?

Rocky_Creek

What jbierling said.

Smaug

The panela will complete a dry fermentation with no nutes.

Panela is approx 80% sugars. So 10lbs of panela is the approximate equilivant of 8 lbs of table sugar.

jbierling

Right, but for example if you wanted to use 92 lbs sugar and 10 lbs of panela, could the 10 lbs of panela provide the yeast with all the nutrients needed to consume the 100 effective pounds of sugar?

If that ratio wouldn't work, what ratio would? How many "extra" nutrients does the panela have available to handle the sugar that is without nutrients of its own?

A related question, how far could you "dilute" the panela with normal refined cane sugar and still be left with something with a significant panela taste profile?

FullySilenced

Give it a try...