The Big Vodka Thread

cunnyfunt

@captainshooch My dextrose washes usually take 1-2 weeks to settle out and get some clarity. Sometimes I put it in the freezer overnight to drop out the yeast if I was in a hurry.

Did you use an airstone with the oxygen? I think 30min is a waste mate. IMO generally 2-3 min is more than enough to get your wash saturated with enough dissolved oxygen.

I just put down 100L of my first ever TPW. I was going to oxygenate it before pitching but thought I would see what happens without. I pitched bakers yeast and went and had dinner. I was so surprised to see an inch of krausen after 20min. I'm loving this wash. I am over my decade of dextrose/turbo yeast washes. Something never been quite right about that combo.

captainshooch

@cunnyfunt yes I did use a 5 micron stone but with a regulator so it just puts out a nice small stream of the tiniest little bubbles. Too much O2 will not hurt. When I used EC1118 in the past with Panela washes it did indeed take over a week. I am trying 2 new things at once. Dextrose, which I have never used in this quantity, although I have used it to boost ABV in the past. Second was, wondering if you can Turbo EC1118. I have to say, you can. But the reason for EC1118 is the clean ferm. so I will find out if by making it a "turbo" if will it add off flavors not typical to this strain. In the pics you can see some cubes with Panela, the big O2 bottle and two 42 gal fermenters, one with a heater and one without. I normally do no need to run the heater for Lavilin since it does like it cooler than other strains I use. The last pic is the one I am running this wash in which is a 30 gal. conical. Maybe I get lucky and figure out a dex/turbo combo that actually can yield a decent product. Wish me luck :D

RedDoorDistillery

@CothermanDistilling I use this Grain Mill. Made by CS Bell.

I can grind out 450lbs of wheat in about 1 hour. The speed is more or less depending on how fine you want to grind it.

captainshooch

@RedDoorDistillery That is one nice mill, lucky you. Do you ever raise the moisture content of the grains before milling or do you mill them as is? I use a Millar's b3 hand cranck at about who knows lb/hr, takes me a while, but it is part of the whole process and I enjoy all of it, wether it is milling, mashing or actually running.

RedDoorDistillery

I have not raised the moisture content. With wheat there is not really much of a husk to try and protect like there is in barley. But I also have not had issues with stuck mashes as the enzyme I use is a Viscosity buster and allows the liquid to drain off.

With a hand crank mill I think my arm would fall off way before I ever got thru the 450lbs I need to mash in. :((

I picked this up used from a farmer that used it to grind feed for his animals. Got it for a steal but it needed a cleaning and repainting.

CothermanDistilling

Thanks, I was wondering if you were using a hammer, grinding, or roller mill! If anyone out there has uses a hammer mill, feel free to chime in... I have a 3-roller mill with 2"diameter x 6" long rollers...

Law_Of_Ohms

My teeth!

captainshooch

@Law_Of_Ohms =)) your one liners just kill me =)) you got some tough ass teeh!!!

captainshooch

@cunnyfunt an update on the dextrose. I racked it off the yeast yesterday. This morning I am still getting yeast settling on the bottom so I see where this can take a while to fully settle out and clear sort of like the tupelo mead I made earlier this year. A centrifuge sure would be handy!

captainshooch

I took one gallon thru the bottom drain yesterday and stuck it in the refrigerator and this is what it looks like this morning and also a view inside the fermenter.

cunnyfunt

Lol a centrifuge would be handy. I am still in awe at that huge bottle o2 and those two 42gals and I'm busy googling Wtf is strain ec1118... Centrifugal force, Newtonian mechanics, how much g force does it take to mutate a yeast strain? I think I just popped a vein in my forehead. I was only thinking to myself how amazing this SS turbo clear was about a month ago

captainshooch

@cunnyfunt EC-1118 is Lavlin, known for a clean ferm with some floral hints as opposed to say distillers wich can lead to too many esters...not exactly sure but a lot of folks say it is a good strain for winter also since it likes it aroun 65F, versus the higher temps for other strains but it is also known to be a relatively slow yeast. Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in.

captainshooch

OOpppss!! I probably confused even more, I misspelled it, it is actually LALVIN EC-1118

punkin

It's a champagne yeast. I prefer the Red Pasteur which i think is 1116.

captainshooch

@punkin what are the pros and cons that makes you prefer "1116"?, if u don't mind me asking.

punkin

The Red Pasteur is quick, it is finnished in a ujsm in five days (less for first fermentation). It fires up quickly and drops bright.

I've never had much luck with ec 1118, it may have been poorly treated before i got it though. I exclusively use specialty distillers yeasts nowadays for ferments destined to be distilled.

captainshooch

Thanks @punkin I seem to be the lucky one cause my 1118 works for me relatively fast, depending on how hard I push it with pitching rate , nute's and temps. I should give 1116 a try.

nvnovrts

Charcoal filtration, How is everyone going about it? I dump a bunch of washed activated charcoal into the finished product and let it settle out and repeat. I'd like tone able to strip it down to almost no aroma/flavor. Anyone with an idea?

RedDoorDistillery

On the left of the image below you will see my charcoal filter. It is 4" TC and about 5 feet long. I pump in from the bottom and out from the top. I use 2 of the SD screen filters to keep the carbon in place. And pack the top with filter paper to catch all the fine carbon dust. Make sure to wash your carbon before you use it.

punkin

Smaller 2" setup here, they were named after our member here Philter who came up with the concept...

http://www.stilldragon.com.au/dragon-philter-1-2/

captainshooch

If I need to, I use a simple ss funnel and a 24" TC packed with 2 coffee filters at the bottom and 1 lb of carbon. The funnel holds 2-3 gals and it take 2-3 hrs to run thru. Works for me but i seldom see a need for it, the 10 plate dragon helps.

captainshooch

An update on the dextrose, it looked like it was going to take days to clear so I put together a filter system using a 5 micron pre-filter, and a 1/2 micron final filter, and pumped the wash thru it with a March 809 pump. It did take a while, 2 liters every 7 minutes but the results are outstanding. Will run it in the am :D

captainshooch

Also, found this elsewhere which sparked my attention and led to this whole 1118 thing.

Jack said: I've been doing some fermentation speed/alcohol-sugar tolerance experiments. The Canadian wine yeast called Lalvin EC-1118 (champagne-saccharomyces bayanus), when pitched at a massive rate (I made up a starter of 10 lbs of sugar, 5 teaspoons of yeast nutrient, in 5 gal of water, then when this was done fermenting, I re-pitched the thick yeast cake at the bottom of the carboy into only 2.5 gallons of 15% potential alcohol sugar water), with what seems like excessive yeast nutrients, it acted the same as the Turbo yeasts I hear you guys in NZ talk about, plus, with the competitive factor (it's a "killer" yeast strain) no boiling or campden tablets had to be used. Anyone who can't get a turbo yeast can make one by "over-pitching " this wine yeast! Fun experiment, but I tested every wine yeast in the store, and I went through over 120 lbs of sugar. EC-1118 was the clear winner by a long shot. Hope this can help someone. (by the way, fermentation took less than a week)

I did confirm you can turbo 1118, tomorrow will tell if it is worth it.

cunnyfunt

@RedDoorDistillery, what is the flow rate of the pump you use for your carbon filter? Why pump from the bottom? And how many l/gal do you get out before you change the carbon? Thanks

I filter similar to @captainshooch and probably everyone else. I try for a flow rate of 1 drip every 3 sec. But that is before I learned of such things as spirit runs. Not all carbon is created equal.

cunnyfunt

@captainshooch lol at that filtered wash. Awesome job

RedDoorDistillery

@cunnyfunt Pumping from the bottom allows the maximum contact area and contact time the tube is always completely full of fluid. If you filter down from the top it can channel on you and you might not get the same exposure time.

I use a small Chugger magnetic drive pump. Like a March pump you can limit the output with a ball valve on the output side so I can go very slow if I want to. I have not really tracked the flow rate. But my spirit is very clean to begin with so it really does not need much contact time on the carbon. As for taste I could not carbon filter it at all but then I could not sell it as Vodka because the TTB requires that it be treated after distillation.

Vodka' is neutral spirits, so distilled or so treated after distillation with charcoal or other materials, as to be without distinctive character, aroma, taste, or color

captainshooch

@RedDoorDistillery I am not sure I quite understand, TTB forces you to make NGS...any hint of flavour left would make it possibly a premium vodka, but they say it has to be NGS to be sold as vodka?? Is it NGS or Vodka ? Not trying to be rude, just wanting to learn.

RedDoorDistillery

Both NGS and Vodka must be distilled at 190 or above. To be legally called Vodka it must be treated after distillation with carbon or other materials. NGS does not require anything other than being distilled at or above 190. That is why Everclear or other commercial bottles of NGS taste like crap.

They are actually pretty flexible on the "without distinctive character, aroma, taste" part. But not on the color. And it must have been treated with Carbon ect. to be legally called Vodka.

captainshooch

@RedDoorDistillery Thanks, it is great to have guys like u on here ... such a welath of info just waiting to be tapped. I appreciate your help!! :-c

Philter

If you haven't already, check out Gert Strand's excellent book on Activated Carbon for the Purification of Alcohol (PDF)

He explains in detail how Activated Carbon is made, what it is, and best of all how to effectively use it ;)