The Red Door Distillery and the tale of the 8" Crystal Dragon.....

Stinger

RDD,

I'm looking at that pattern in the copper end-plate and wondering about the second of the 3 concentric rings. The first and second circle of holes are both on 45* centres, the third (outside) circle of holes is on 22.5* centres.

If the second (middle) circle of holes had been on 30* centres, there would be an extra 4 tubes. Would there have been a problem with that layout? Or perhaps it would have been too close/difficult to execute?

Anyway, looks great as is. :-)

NB: * = degrees

RedDoorDistillery

Didnt want to push it to far and I wanted to leave a little bit more space. With 33 copper pipes this is an improvement of about 200% over the original dephlem and this does not take into account the better transfer properties of copper over stainless.

Stinger

I was thinking that the height of the dephleg could have been reduced to a maybe 275 with those extra tubes in view of your height restriction - but maybe my calculations are optimistic.

Lloyd

Very nice RedDoor, I'm following this closely but unable to post often because a big shipment of brass and copper arrived that needs my attention. After my chains are broken from the assembly table I hope to be more involved in this.

Heads up, the Crystal Dephlegmator may be on the horizon, ala @awesome

That's right, he drilled the glass to provide water flow and he is trying to work out a modular copper and glass solution. I've promised him support in the form of a longer glass chimney section to help suit his endeavour.

These are exciting times for 8" glass columns. The pieces are finally in place and we are lucky to have a few skilled users like RedDoor and Awesome to help bring them to perfection.

Myles

You just have to put some small silicone fish in there, so you can see them swimming round in that fancy fish bowl. :))

Very nice idea, transparent dephlegmator.

(Have you a design on the back burner with a set of cold fingers instead of vapour tubes, so you would see the vapour condensing?)

bentstick

I just keep being amazed at the innovations of this project,keep on keeping on,it is getting better all the time!

Lloyd

@Myles said: You just have to put some small silicone fish in there, so you can see them swimming round in that fancy fish bowl. :)) Very nice idea, transparent dephlegmator.

(Have you a design on the back burner with a set of cold fingers instead of vapour tubes, so you would see the vapour condensing?)

There are no plans, we're winging this one as we go. :)

punkin

Not a stupid idea at all to have some flow indicators in there Myles

Moonshine

@Myles said: You just have to put some small silicone fish in there, so you can see them swimming round in that fancy fish bowl. :))

+1

Lloyd

How do you keep the fish from clogging the water exit?

Myles

Directional inlet jets, set a vortex going in the condenser body. Inlet at the top and outlet at the bottom. Your flow indicators would travel in circuits round the top part of the condenser.

Or possibly more realistically, have them tethered so they would "wobble" but not actually go anywhere. :)

Lloyd

@Myles said: Or possibly more realistically, have them tethered so they would "wobble" but not actually go anywhere. :)

I often overlook the simple. Excellent idea.

punkin

Or have them highly bouyant, that way if the inlet is at the top it will be no problem.

Myles

I did build a "wobbling" flow indicator which sort of worked. I had an oval strip of copper 5mm x 25mm attached through a hole at 1 end, inside a length of clear PVC tube, inserted into a coolant line.

In reality it was a small spinner blade from a fishing lure!!!

It did work over some flow rates, but was not very efficient at low or high flows.

RedDoorDistillery

So today the 12" long SS Shell for the new Dephlag showed up. I also spent a little time practicing on Tig welding copper. I have figured out the power setting for the Tig for the copper plates and tubes I will be using. Tig Welding Copper is a touchy task. To much power and the whole thing turns to liquid on you. Too little and you cant even get a puddle going. The problem is the difference between the 2 problems is only about 15amps....

Now I just have to find time to make the 33 tubes and weld 66 joints....

awesome

It's common to preheat the copper when you get to 3/16thick about 200f and up to about 300f when you get to 1/4" total I find that copper electrical wire is a good filler rod as most filler rods seem to be to thick for the work that I do i hope this helps

CothermanDistilling

I would try to use no filler or just have a bit of the real copper filler handy, just walk the bead if the tubes are press-fit. Find a way to rest your hand on a plate just above the assembly (but not touching it to keep it cool) and rotate the assembly a bit after you walk each little circle of copper puddle... by the 2nd or 3rd one, you can probably turn down the heat quite a bit, as the whole thing will be way over 300F... an hour of creating the right jig so you are comfortable will save a lot of agony!

Myles

Do you really need to weld it? If you brazed it instead, the silver alloy would flow by capillary action around the joint.

harley

I hard solder all my copper to copper with copper solder plumber and there is added with 2% silver or 5% silver for increasing flowability-penetration ... some other additives is not needed when hard solder copper to copper ...

I use silver solder with flux on the solder and also this is for hard soldering and works perfectly when you join Coppar and stainless ...

This goes very fast to perform and is simple but requires plenty of heat instead ... so I have a 'shower head on my gas weld that provides approximately 1000 liters ....

Cheers

RedDoorDistillery

I do plan to Braze the Copper plate to the Stainless Pipe. My concern about Soldering or Brazing all the copper to copper is that there is so many connections. I am afraid that after I get a few done that as I do the others due to the whole plate being heated that some of them might undo themselves and create leaks.

Like when doing a copper pipe elbow.... You solder 1 side... Then you go to heat the other end and solder it and the pipe gets hot enough to break the other end loose. I know this can be an issue with regular plumbing solder. But if I were to Braze it would this still be an issue?

Also once I get all the pipes done. When I go to braze the copper to stainless could I break loose some of the tubes with the heat being applied to the plate?

This was why I planned to Tig all the Tubes... and then braze the Copper to Stainless.

harley

These copper solder that I use is around 710 to 715 degrees Celsius working temp. Something I've been thinking about is to use my Tig weld instead of gas welding and brazing with tig welder instead .... should move very quickly and spread heat much less ...

I do not know if this works well but I will try it anyway ... But a dont have any of this problem that you "think that you can get" anyway, but a havent solder my "tight" reflux cooler yeat so maybe a shall have that problem later....

Cheers

FullySilenced

If you got a tig and your a tig welder.. by all means tig weld it then you can sleep at night... with only the silver solder on the perimeter ... will you use 56% silver solder to join the copper to the stainless ?

From what i see in the photo's your not going to have any issues... maybe need some of those good woven kevlar gloves to work and move the hot plates and tubes around...

RedDoorDistillery

Yes. I am planning to use 56% Silver Solder to braze the copper to stainless. Here is the link to the Silver Solder I am going to use.

SSF-6 Starter Kit

FullySilenced

I was gonna suggest that one... it flow rate is amazing ... great flux as well ... did you get one of the bottles of flux as well?

Myles

I like the 55% equivalent to that one that is available in the UK. You should be fine.

For doing this big condenser core it might be worth making yourself a simple "lazy susan" rotating table. Just put a bit of refractory material on top of it and then you can easily rotate the workpiece as you go from tube to tube.

I am interested how you get on because in a few weeks I am doing a 6 tube product shotgun. Nothing like the scale of yours (just a 2" shell) so I will probably braze the tubes and shell to plate joints all at the same time.

RedDoorDistillery

Precision cut 40 pipes 12" long. Now to flare and easy flange both ends of each one. Easy Flange 1 end. Pass thru both plates and then easy flange the other end. Then will come the fun of Tigging it all.

@FullySilenced No it did not get extra flux. Each road is coated so I didn't figure I needed it.

jonno

Have fun mate :))

Vaya_Con_Dios_Distillery

I ordered 8" parts today. The tig welding you do is beautiful. I hope I measure up. Thanks for the pixs and information.

RedDoorDistillery

@napavalleydistillery said: I ordered 8" parts today. The tig welding you do is beautiful. I hope I measure up. Thanks for the pixs and information.

What are you getting in 8"? How may plates? Bubble or Perf? I have gotten a lot better at Tig but no where near professional yet... :-) Still need more practice.

Smaug

Your work is just fine Robert.