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The Red Door Distillery and the tale of the 8" Crystal Dragon.....

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  • RDD, I think, (and hope) that we are on the “right” way here, it feels so.

    Step 1 I would have chosen to abandon-abolish the top plate entirely and used the 10pc indefinitely, to se what this “setup” and change is giving...

    Then I had distilled and seen if this had made any noticeable difference on the plates, in power and output and more.... test it to max.... and film it so we can se it....

    Step 2 is to drill in more refluxpipe - cooling pipe and what a can se from here is that you can put in about 12pc pipe and get a good pattern and also have 1pc place left for yours sensor pipe.

    And also change side of a water inlet ore outlet so the water relly must travel around all pipe-cross the reflux cooler every time even when you have little water going thru this... It is okey with only 4-5mm intervals between the pipe to pipe( it is about 20cm hight from end to end so this little distans-intervals are no constrictions-restrictions) ore the wall only you can weld it watertight at both end....

    12pc more 25mm pipe (inside mm )= 20pc pipe shall give a LOT less wapor speed in this reflux cooler and a hell lot of less pressure, thats for sure.... and you shall save a lot of water... But if 25mm pipe is to big, take 20-22mm pipe instead, a relly dont think that this small differents in pipe size is so important so you dont can test it..... and se the differences ...

    If it is still "hight pressure" in the column, then we must look in the other end.....

    This is what a personally have done... Cheers

  • The liquid temps are cooler than vapor temps. Seems counter intuitive that the defleg would be working " harder " within that context.

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  • The liquid on the top plate is just slightly under the vapor temp. And if this liquid is actually boiling up into the Defhlag pipes it would be subjecting the defhlag to additional direct heat contact with the liquid vs just vapor contact.

    I don't want to change the number of plates as this would change more that 1 variable at a time. Just need 8 Threaded Rod Couplers to add short lengths to the existing rods. Then I can add 1 more glass and drop top plate down so I can see it and give room for the liquid before the dephlag. I might even be able to use the short rods that came with the 8" sight glass without having to buy more rods.

  • and tig weld three nuts together to make one long connecting nut if connecting nuts are not available where your located

  • Pretty sure I can get them local. Way faster to buy them then to make them....

  • edited August 2013

    @harley said: RDD, I think, (and hope) that we are on the “right” way here, it feels so.

    Step 1 I would have chosen to abandon-abolish the top plate entirely and used the 10pc indefinitely, to se what this “setup” and change is giving...

    Then I had distilled and seen if this had made any noticeable difference on the plates, in power and output and more.... test it to max.... and film it so we can se it....

    Step 2 is to drill in more refluxpipe - cooling pipe and what a can se from here is that you can put in about 12pc pipe and get a good pattern and also have 1pc place left for yours sensor pipe.

    And also change side of a water inlet ore outlet so the water relly must travel around all pipe-cross the reflux cooler every time even when you have little water going thru this... It is okey with only 4-5mm intervals between the pipe to pipe( it is about 20cm hight from end to end so this little distans-intervals are no constrictions-restrictions) ore the wall only you can weld it watertight at both end....

    12pc more 25mm pipe (inside mm )= 20pc pipe shall give a LOT less wapor speed in this reflux cooler and a hell lot of less pressure, thats for sure.... and you shall save a lot of water... But if 25mm pipe is to big, take 20-22mm pipe instead, a relly dont think that this small differents in pipe size is so important so you dont can test it..... and se the differences ...

    If it is still "hight pressure" in the column, then we must look in the other end.....

    This is what a personally have done... Cheers

    Step 3,

    Lower the liquid level on all plates to the max, which in your case should be about 6mm, it's what the nuts looks to be the in height ...

    If you get less than 10mm remain between cup in the bottom of the plate and tube end - cut the pipe at the bottom end so you have at least 10mm apart for maximum flow there ...

    This should reduce the tendency to weeping considerably and make that the plates can receive take care of more power- more output, but a hope that the return pipe diameter is enough, but it teaches you to see ....

    You shall never get out 96% from a 5% mash anyway with only 11 plates and 1pc distillation, am note sure that it is possible to get 96% from 5% mash even with 20pc plates if we talking maximum speed and only 1pc distillation...

    Purity vodka here in Sweden get out about 92% from a 6% mash and with 18pc ( 1pc big caps per plate) big bubbelcaps so they must destilling in 2pc time....

    So i think that 2pc distillation is what you need and speed is more important than 1 ore 2% more and to the “price” of speed....so Lower the liquid level to max....and test it...

    Lower licuidlevel = more power can the plate recive, but it give little less % insted.... Higher licuidlevel = less power can the plate recive, but it give little more % insted...

    The taste is in the steam and note in the reflux....

    This is what am personally shall try later....

    Cheers

  • edited August 2013

    @RedDoorDistillery said: The liquid on the top plate is just slightly under the vapor temp. And if this liquid is actually boiling up into the Defhlag pipes it would be subjecting the defhlag to additional direct heat contact with the liquid vs just vapor contact.

    I don't want to change the number of plates as this would change more that 1 variable at a time. Just need 8 Threaded Rod Couplers to add short lengths to the existing rods. Then I can add 1 more glass and drop top plate down so I can see it and give room for the liquid before the dephlag. I might even be able to use the short rods that came with the 8" sight glass without having to buy more rods.

    RDD, If you have a complete 8 "section with just 1pc glass section in.

    You can not put it in the bottom( ore in the top) as it is and move down your top plate so it gets over this section. Then you see even under this new base plate and over the top plate ...

    It is needed 1pc 8 "clamps and a complete single 8" glass module for this operation, and all distances will be at least 10cm everywhere ...

    Just an idea ...

    Cheers

  • I don't have and extra 8" complete sight glass setup. Both of the ones I bought are built into the 2 column sections. I will just add 1 more glass to the existing and lengthen the rods to accept 6 glass. Should not be a big deal. Plan is to do that this week and run an 260 gallon 8% wash that I have ready this weekend.

  • RDD i wonder if adding a small tubulator over your scrubbies in the Delph would increase your reflux condensers effectiveness? Something like this would be an easy try... unless you packed the whole tube with scrubbies? Just an idea

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  • I lightly filled the entire tube with scrubbies. They are not packed in at all just enough for a friction fit so they don't fall out.

  • So tonight I made the configuration change. Picked up 8 Rod Joining Nuts and cut 8-100mm long stainless All-Thread extension rods. Took the top apart and added 1 more piece of glass. This moved the top plate 100 more away from the dephlag and made it so the top plate was visible so I can see the action on the top plate and remove any risk that liquid is going up the dephalg tubes. So the Top half now has 6 plates and 6 glass.

    Only cost me about $20 for the 8 nuts and the 1 Meter of Threaded Rod.

    If this ends up being a better way then I will replace all 8 rods with new ones that are 100mm longer than the originals so remove the joining nuts and make it all look pretty again.

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  • Nice job. I think it still looks pretty.

  • And the sofa looks comfortable. I could never watch TV on that without going to sleep.

    This is the best development thread ever. I finally get real-life feedback on 8" equipment.

  • I promised I would give you feedback...... :-) In a few weeks you may regret that request... LOL

  • Really nice looking setup...

  • 260 gallon 8% wash > @FullySilenced said:

    RDD i wonder if adding a small tubulator over your scrubbies in the Delph would increase your reflux condensers effectiveness? Something like this would be an easy try... unless you packed the whole tube with scrubbies? Just an idea

    image image

    This is a better idea then ss scrubbis, becouse that can built up pressure...

    Cheers

  • edited August 2013

    I mentioned this over in Harley's topic as well but it seems to me that these reflux condensers are getting longer and wider. We may be getting to the point where we really should be thinking of inserting baffles to control the direction of coolant flow.

    If you need to insert turbulators or scrubbies it just implies that the diameter of the vapour tubes is incorrect. Provided the total surface area of all the vapour tubes remains the same, then reducing the size and adding more tubes should not cause undue problems. It just increases surface area relative to total cross sectional area.

    Off course there is a minimum. At lower powers I would say 11 mm internal, but at your power levels this is probably too small. 15 mm or 16 mm internal might be OK.

    RDD your tubes are 25mm IIRC, now I never had much success with the spiral ribbon type turbulators, I don't think they produce enough turbulence. I easy fix that does not involve much pressure but introduces a lot of turbulence is this style. It is easy to build and retrofit, introduces turbulence and increases the cold surface area available inside the vapour tube. As a trial before completely rebuilding your condenser it might be worth a try.

    You could use short sections of 12mm or 15mm tube. Its not very clear on the image but alternate tabs are bent in and out. They grip the inside of the vapour tube and provide a lot of sharp edges and pints to generate turbulence. Because they are in contact they also generate a cold surface inside the tube.

    image

    If they don't work for you they are also easy to remove. Your tubes are stainless so the transfer to create a cold surface will not be as efficient, but they will introduce turbulence.

    Even with a stainless shell there is a lot to be said for using copper tubes internally in the condenser.

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  • Thanks Myles. Might have to give this a try. This weekend I plan to run the column with the new config above. This will tell me if I really do in fact have a Dephlem cooling problem. You idea could be good to try before I add more tubes to the dephlem.

  • And if they press in the tubes will tranfer heat to the copper pieces as well .. maybe a win win .... very little cost other than time to fabricate them... make em about an inch long and you could get 7 or 8 in each tube...

  • I'll chuck in my 2c. From what I saw in your vids RDD, you wont get enough vapor speed to hold the fluid on the plates with the size holes in the plates that you have. You just cant push enough vapor through without it wanting to hold up the downcoming liquid. And the downcomer design is holding you back a little. Matters not if its glass, stainless or copper, its still a column/colan/cylinder. A 6mm bath wont purify the hooch to the extent you want. Perf plate design can be a bit weird, and dosnt often measure up with what you read. Sometimes it takes more than reading to make a great product/produck. Wapor speed not a woory with youe heat input abbility. Its the plates. If you can knock it all down and equalise, its the plate design restricting you. :-$

  • EG so your thinking the hole size is too large? or too small? Harley no imput is required.. : : :-t :-$ just asking EG about this comment and his thinking here......

  • I'm wondering if the 4" and 8" models will come with copper or stainless plates when they're offered on the website? Or will there be the option for either? Is there a 6" in the works?

  • @gixxerpilot750 said: I'm wondering if the 4" and 8" models will come with copper or stainless plates when they're offered on the website? Or will there be the option for either? Is there a 6" in the works?

    Both and both. The 4 and 8 inch Crystal Dragons are available now and both can use either copper bubble cap plates or SS perf plates.
    The 6" size is not in the works. It seems too big for hobbyist and too small for the pros.

  • I am running about 13mm depth on the plate. Right now I can not knock back all the vapor but yet I also think I need more power to stabilize the plates and keep the upper ones from dumping. So far the DC seem to be keeping up with the down flow just fine. I am not flooding the plates.

    Running another run tomorrow with the space added between the top plate and the Dephlem so we will see how it acts now. Will post an update tomorrow and more video in the new config.

  • No plates/downcomers or glass seals in the US currently .... only glass lens and end caps...

  • RDD how is the run going today so far?

  • That will be tomorrow. Today I mashed another 260gallons in the fermenter. Gotta have something to feed this new still with as we test it. Got 260gal in the Still for tomorrow. Got another 260 gallons that just finished fermenting and is now clearing for next week. And then started another 260 gallons fermenting today that will be ready in 3 weeks.

  • Sound like you need about 6 more fermenters...

  • @FullySilenced said: No plates/downcomers or glass seals in the US currently .... only glass lens and end caps...

    There should be 20 each of the special 4" gasket in the US and another 100 on the boat - about 2 or 3 weeks away.
    We had a run on the downcomers and there are plenty on the boat. I expressed over 200 pieces two weeks ago and they also got wiped out.

    Yikes! The 4" perf plates were never sent. I'll express some tomorrow with more downcomers.

  • are they special downcomers or just copper SD bubble plate downcomers? Put some of the 4" gaskets in the express order as well since the the other are 2 plus weeks out... if you got room...

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