Loony bin and crazy ideas

grim

@Drunkas - Those MQ sensors you posted - we're using a number of them in an Arduino setup to serve as low-cost vapor detectors.

The Arduino setup will be wired into the still element electrical controller as an interlock. Power on as long as no vapor detected, as soon as they trip, immediate cut off of power to the elements, etc. We'll locate a number of them along the ceiling for coverage.

We figure we're saving a few thousand dollars vs a comparable commercial setup - as measuring the level of vapor in the air is irrelevant to us, we only care that there is vapor.

They work, that's about all I can tell you. Locate them above some high ABV spirit, slosh it around a bit, they'll trip right quick. But using them to actually gauge the ABV of the still output? Don't bother. I'm not sure how you'd even calibrate that.

I tell you guys, I still don't understand why all the focus on automating your cuts. Give me an automated mash setup any day and I'd be 100x as happy. On an hour for hour basis, we spend a whole lot more time mashing and moving mash. Running the still is the relaxing part.

Interesting options for auto-mash

1. Early morning pre-fill and heat
2. Automated grain dump and agitator run
3. Timed gelatinization run
4. Auto-cool, chiller to set temps
5. Automated enzyme/malt dump
6. Timed saccharification run
7. Cool down to pitch temp
8. Sound a bell and profit!

If I could do two things to speed up the distilling process:

1. Early morning spirit pre-heat - use a very small heating element, maybe 1000w (small enough to never reach vaporization temperatures) - bring it up to a temp safe enough that you won't get vaporization - auto-turn on of the defleg for safety reasons.
2. Early morning trigger on the coolant tank chiller.

Spend a whole lot less time babysitting the start-up process.

Mickiboi

The easiest thing to do here is to put the temperature into a micro controller or PLC and do a look up table.

CothermanDistilling

I bet with the BCS, which uses steinhart-hart equations, you could just punch in the thermistor values for three points and use the freely available calculators to come up with the coefficients

Howto: Calibrate Temperature Probes @ ECC Forum

you would have to know or document what range it is valid over, the area where the curve follows the formula... you would just have to know it is not reading temp, it is reading proof...

cunnyfunt

Just a thought for those of us that want to reach out from.the boiler and can't install overhead support

Lloyd

Mickiboi

@grim said: Drunkas - Those MQ sensors you posted - we're using a number of them in an Arduino setup to serve as low-cost vapor detectors.

The Arduino setup will be wired into the still element electrical controller as an interlock. Power on as long as no vapor detected, as soon as they trip, immediate cut off of power to the elements, etc. We'll locate a number of them along the ceiling for coverage.

Isn't alcohol vapour heavier than air?

FullySilenced

Lloyd or you could put a adapter on a clamp which would allow you to support the parrot/ offset from the column ... with an thumbscrew locked sleeve over a rod arrangement of some type...

just stinkin thinkin

punkin

That's a good use of one of the spare 2" ports on the boiler cunnyfunt. You could just use a 2"x 305mm TC pipe with an end cap on it then come off with a 2"pipe hanger and a wicked custom made support arm. There's a spare port on the milk cans that you could use this for too, just undo the top clamp for a fill port.

Nice sideways thinking.

cunnyfunt

Sounds great. I found a good little tig welder recently. I will have a play around with the boiler port/ pipe hanger idea. But for today I will just use a broom handle ;)

edit- Looking at it now I wouldnt even need to weld anything. Brilliant idea punkin.

punkin

Want me to hold your order? :))

cunnyfunt

Haha. I can't do it again. You should know by now not to pack and send my order straight away. I will carefully consider what I need and add it to the next one :)

SDeurope

Indeed an interesting idea to support the column weight if not having something to wire it up to the ceiling. :-bd

CothermanDistilling

I have one of these, it locks hydraulically.... something similar could attach to modified clamps (or an end cap, but a clamp would be the logical choice) on your system
@Lloyd, another $.02 idea I will give you... let me know when I get up to enough to buy a cup of coffee!

FullySilenced

@FullySilenced said: Lloyd or you could put a adapter on a clamp which would allow you to support the parrot/ offset from the column ... with an thumbscrew locked sleeve over a rod arrangement of some type...

The mod would be something simple like a nut welded to the clamp so a support rod could screw into it...

grim

GVC sells threaded sanitary clamps - you could probably get one for the column and one for the condenser and just cut a custom threaded rod to pin them together. Might take a little trial and error in cutting the rod.

They are pricey, but all in all it might be cheaper than having anything welded or doing a jury rig on it. Hopefully you don't need larger than 6".

https://www.gvc.net/c/3037/threaded-hanger-mount-guide

FullySilenced

would be less expensive to weld a nut on a std clamp... jeez at those prices...

CothermanDistilling

a single nut would 'work', but not be ideal... A clamp with a flat machined surface with two threaded holes better, a square or tapered slot better yet, and a picatinny rail would be the holy grail... fits right in with modularity..

captainshooch

Hum.. picatinny rails, now you really got my attention!! I have those in several of my systems. AR modularity, still modularity,.... sort of go hand in hand.

FullySilenced

I was talking about a sanitary clamp... cause the column has clamps on it anyway every few inches to work a support off to the parrot or arm... a nut for a threaded rod and jam nut could be installed... anything more than that would be excessive to support just the parrot, condenser and offset arm assembly.

dad

I use the picatinny rail on my boiler to mount the ACOG sight system...going to get some night vision stuff for the column someday.

Myles

I have used suspension cables with yachting screws (turnbuckles) for fine adjustment previously. However, if you can't do that how about wall mounting the condenser. Is that an option?

On that style boiler I would be thinking of something clamped to the leg. Possibly a bar clamped to 2 of the legs.

punkin

My condensor is wall mounted and i have some Paramatta rope over the ceiling joist for when i need to swing the column out of the way.

CothermanDistilling

do it like the big boys, and floor mount the condenser on a holding tank for either spirits or cooling water...

waxernz

I've got some arduinos for another project. I might give it a go if I have what I need. No idea how to program yet but the arduino community is super helpful and I'm sure I'll get it sorted. Most sensors etc already have libraries written for them.

Was thinking of hooking up a flow sensor and stepper motor to needle valve so can control accurately with a rotary encoder using digital readout. Not sure if worth the trouble and if if doing it with cheap parts will allow for very accurate results anyway. I just like the ideas of a master control box where I can read what's happening with still as well as control dephleg, condenser and heat all in one spot. Or is this quite common?

The cool thing about arduino projects is you could manufacture a swanky looking finished product if you order enough.

Lloyd

Ain't looney at all @waxernz, would be great if I understood programming languages too.

I kind of envision breaking the all-in-one control panel into modules like the DIY element controller kit that has become so popular. A module that could read a sensor and control the flow of cooling water can easily control either the dephlegmator or the product condenser.
A controller on the product condenser is nowhere near as useful as it is on the dephlegmator but it's cool anyway because it gives a steady product temperature and, for me, uses less water. PID controllers seem great for this as all the functionality needed is already available in a nice, clean, cheap, readily available device. Couple that to a probe and give the PID an SSR to power the valve and wire it all together in a box. Sounds simple for now but I've never actually built one yet.

Myles

Lloyd I agree with you about the sensor in the PC. Much more usefull in the parrot instead. However, there is one application where it could be usefull. On a strip run.

I tend to have the product warm on a strip run and cooler when I am using tne parrot on a spirit run.

waxernz

That is why I was thinking arduino for the price and flexibility. Especially when just playing with prototype ideas without breaking the bank. I figured because I have almost everything its a nice way of playing and excuse to start learning to program. With a PID for instance how do you go about interfacing the individual components as a user upgrades. Arduino can be linked to a computer. I would love to have an arduino controlling the dephlegmator for instance and be able to log all that data. You can do that through serial with timestamping. Im just not sure of the specifics at the moment. Guess I will start more thorough research into it.

When you say automation is the future I imagined software and hardware working in tandem. Being able to do everything from recipe creation, inventory records to loging and update data such as the batch your running. Having how you ran the still recorded graphed etc along with tasting notes would be interesting. The knowledge that its upgradeable like you suggest and you could add a vapour probe or parrot probe for example that can then log abv and give that information by batch. Overlaying all graph data over time to see relationships of all data inputs(temperature, abv, flowrate) at once. That would be cool.

It would certainly give you a better overview of how each individual recipe is running. With modular stills the software would have to allow for you to choose different hardware configurations and allow comprehensive sorting so you could see data for individual recipes over batches where you only ran 2 plates or even compare difference between the different hardware etc etc....hmm now im getting carried away thinking about something I cant even make with my current skills :P

Smaug

@waxernz said: That is why I was thinking arduino for the price and flexibility. Especially when just playing with prototype ideas without breaking the bank. I figured because I have almost everything its a nice way of playing and excuse to start learning to program. With a PID for instance how do you go about interfacing the individual components as a user upgrades. Arduino can be linked to a computer. I would love to have an arduino controlling the dephlegmator for instance and be able to log all that data. You can do that through serial with timestamping. Im just not sure of the specifics at the moment. Guess I will start more thorough research into it.

When you say automation is the future I imagined software and hardware working in tandem. Being able to do everything from recipe creation, inventory records to loging and update data such as the batch your running. Having how you ran the still recorded graphed etc along with tasting notes would be interesting. The knowledge that its upgradeable like you suggest and you could add a vapour probe or parrot probe for example that can then log abv and give that information by batch. Overlaying all graph data over time to see relationships of all data inputs(temperature, abv, flowrate) at once. That would be cool.

It would certainly give you a better overview of how each individual recipe is running. With modular stills the software would have to allow for you to choose different hardware configurations and allow comprehensive sorting so you could see data for individual recipes over batches where you only ran 2 plates or even compare difference between the different hardware etc etc....hmm now im getting carried away thinking about something I cant even make with my current skills :P

A system as you describe ( nearly identical) is currently available on the market place.

Siemens makes one for 100k.

The next closest version that I am aware of is 25k.

punkin

Combine your controller (once built) with @DistilliTraK software and you have the same thing for next to nothing.

DistilliTraK

@punkin said: Combine your controller (once built) with DistilliTraK software and you have the same thing for next to nothing.

@DistilliTrak is salivating that possibility ;) I was originally just thinking abt USB based feeds, but I really want wireless devices- That makes the best sense.. and cuts down on wired infrastructure.

Thanks Punkin!