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In this Discussion
- Ak49er September 2015
- bachman September 2015
- brewsmith June 2015
- CothermanDistilling August 2015
- DonMateo December 2016
- Fiji_Spirits December 2016
- FloridaCracker January 2017
- grim April 2017
- Harry June 2015
- jacksonbrown August 2015
- Johnboy September 2015
- Jung September 2015
- Kapea September 2015
- LocalGoat June 2015
- Mickiboi August 2015
- Moonshine June 2015
- punkin August 2015
- razerhawg August 2015
- Schiefe4 March 2017
- Smaug September 2015
- solarpowerscott July 2015
- Telluride August 2015
- TheMechWarrior June 2015
- Unsensibel August 2015
Comments
@grim now we are talking :)
Power ultrasonic driver @ imajeenyus
Powering an Ultrasonic Transducer @ HACKADAY
Hey, that looks just like my $72 one.
The link I posted above seems to be heavily focused on materials, geometry, and resonant frequencies (waveguides and horns). Which would make me believe that geometry is important.
Reexamining the photo of the flow-through reactor, I find it very curious that the transducers look to be mounted to some sort of cast metal block, which is affixed to the pipe. That looks like a substantial amount of metal of a very particular shape and size, a lot of expensive metal, so I think they are probably there for a specific purpose. They are not simply there to act as a joiner due to the radius of the pipe, as you would be able to get by with a spacer/joiner of 1/10th that height.
There is little/no spacing on batch reactors between the bin and the transducers. The metal appears to be tooled/cast aluminum, and I don't think the spacer is as critical as you make it out to be. Just like probe type transducers, the probe is basically just a spacer that the transducers mounts on, it transmits the frequencies. Here is another tube type reactor, notice the clamp on style setup, it is just like any other tooled clamp on used for many other purposes. Also appears to be clamped on to a simple 1.5" or 2" triclamp pipe.
Small batch reactor bin
What was that unit originally used for? Willing to share a link?
I know they are tuned, and being tuned or not means the difference between putting a piece of thin aluminum foil into the cleaner and having it last a few seconds or last several minutes before it crinkled and dissappeared... A friend had a half dozen of tank models on wheels made by this same company for a golf club cleaning business he tried to start, had to be careful not to try to clean old wooden drivers, it would eat the shellac right off them... business failed because the usage was mroe related to the cuteness of the girl operating the cleaner than it how good the cleaner worked....
Same company products also used in cleaning window blinds.
Don't forget, it is not just transducers, the power supply is pretty specialized and industrial...
Look at it this way, it is way cheaper than a russel-finex Liquid solid separator! ;-)
Oh, if you have product read to try, they will give you a 30 day use and if you don;t like it, return it.... I just don't have enough product ready... yet...
Just an observational update on spirits treated with US;
It can't be my imagination because I take notes on my different runs and the deal is that spirits treated with US right after airing will take less time to color up when dominoes are added. I have tried using the dominoes during the US process and after and I find the same results. Dominoes add to the US while treating it start to color up during the US bath and continue a LOT quicker than even adding them after the treatment. That part makes sense to me because you can almost see the color being shaken out of the wood.
What surprised me was how quickly the spirit colored up and theoretically aged faster when the dominoes were added after the treatment compared to untreated. I didn't do a side by side but the results almost caused me to fuck up some rum because of over oaking. Same result on a run of UJ. I guess I will have to start using less oak per liter from now on. I use to use one domino per liter; from now on I will use one per 2 liter jar.
I always age on oak at 65ABV. It HAS been very hot here lately and I'm sure that the temp will have some degree of effect but I am seeing at least a 30% decrease in time needed on oak. If you go by the often used time of 4-5 weeks on oak, you may be disappointed.
I have no theories on this and welcome any.
@FloridaCracker Would give some detail as to the length of time and volume in US? Thanks
Could try oaking at 55% rather than 65%
StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America
Smaug I might try that. Scott, I was using one domino per quart (or liter) for the generally accepted time of 4-5 weeks.
As a side note, one of the dominoes that I used during an US treatment was removed and after it dried it almost looked bleached of color.
If you leave the spirit in the jar and submerse it in the us cleaner full of water does it still have the same effect? Just thinking it would be easier than cleaning between UK and rum or scotch.
I put the spirit directly in the US cleaner. Probably doesn't matter but I wouldn't want the jar to stop some of the action. Cleaning is relatively painless. By the time I empty it and grab a paper towel, most of the stuff has evaporated. I just use a damp paper towel to wipe it out.
so whats the verdict fc? is it worth the money?
Well, Scott I am looking for a bigger one if that tells you anything. My process now includes an US bath for everything that I distill. After airing for a few days I give the stuff four 8 minute runs then I cut to 65abv for aging. I have even given some batches another treatment when I cut again to 40abv.
The process is time consuming and I damn sure wouldn't be doing it if I didn't think that it made a hell of a difference. I just bought an oak barrel that I will be working on filling with rum and everything will get the US treatment before it goes in the barrel.
Nowhere near an expert but I think the blocks the transducers are mounted on are just for mass. Possibly to help keep from ripping the base material up. I do some work with US cleaning/stripping and all tanks are 10 to 12 GA with typically 1" thick block glued to tank and transducer glued to block. I think McMaster Carr has a special epoxy for this.
ultrasonic transducer epoxied to a parrot body?
Too dangerous
Real parrot?
Jimmy Buffet fan...
I'm more like I am now than I was before.
Well, I AM a native Floridian.
As compared to?
Why?
Even with the glass globe on top?
Where you gunna go when the volcano blow? (couldn't help myself)
High frequency power - increased arc risk
Surface temperature of the element (mine get hot - 100F+)
Long-term impact on weld-integrity or triclamp bolt threads working loose
Non-classified electrics, not intrinsically safe
Potential splattering/spray/increased volatility
You wanna bring down the alcohol % before introducing ultrasonic wave lengths, these lab results were pulled from another thread.
Wow and most of what I have gathered was just the opposite; US at higher ABV. I guess if you had the time and equipment you could do both. I have done it at 90+ABV and then again after cutting to 40ABV and seemed to have more impact at higher ABV. Obviously not a scientific study though. Just nose and taste
If the ultrasonic treatment allows certain volatiles to be eliminated from the sample, perhaps we can mount the transducers right to the still boiler itself. Wouldn't it be pretty nifty of it we were able to increase the volatility of the undesirables right in the still, and take them off with the heads cut?
Vapor-liquid equilibrium of ethanol/ethyl acetate mixture in ultrasonic intensified environment
Mathematical modeling of a single stage ultrasonically assisted distillation process
Singing stills... The wave of the future?
I'm more like I am now than I was before.
Grim, I think those links are talking about changing the boiling points in the still to break azeotropes, not so much aging related.
I think the aging process can be separated out into a few very different stages.
When I looked into US a few years back the impression I got was US helps to cut down the time on that first stage which isn’t so connected with impurities.
It basically stems from the fact water shouldn’t actually be a liquid.
If you look at the size of the molecule and its weight etc it should behave more like a gas. A molecule CO2 for example weighs nearly 2.5x that of H2O.
The reason is stays liquid at room temperature is because the molecules hold onto each other. Because they are bent into a boomerang shape they act like little magnets (they’re polar) and can link up end on end into chains that look more like liquid hydrocarbons. These links are called hydrogen bonds (van der waals).
This is also related to why some things mix and dissolve and others like water (polar) and oil (non-polar) don’t.
When we make neutral have to separate everything out of the ethanol, all the impurity’s and by default this includes trying out rip out every last water molecule too.
I’m pretty sure everything up to this point is all true…
When you water it back down again it takes time for everything to mix up again properly. Not just to dissolve but for all those hydrogen bonds between the water and ethanol to go back to their most ‘relaxed’ state i.e. for the ethanol to be fully incorporated.
That’s why a three month wait is usually recommended for vodka to be at its best and that’s why US should be done after cutting. US allegedly helps out with this process. I haven’t got supporting documents (I can’t remember where I read it originally).
All that is still conjecture to a certain degree. I don’t believe in magic and without a justifiable reason behind things my BS meter won’t let me ‘believe’.
It’s probably BS but this talks about it a bit and is the best I could find.
I don't believe in "magic" either and I understand your explanation behind some of the science. That said, just because I can't find a justifiable reason for something (I'm not a scientist but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once) that doesn't mean that positive change isn't happening. The argument behind before cuts or after cuts is probably pretty easy to make. Your idea on why US should be done after cuts makes sense and supports the previous chart and findings. All told, I don't really believe that US does anything other than speed up the initial driving off of unwanted volatiles. This could be a HUGE net for those who age in jars as it could allow those volatiles to escape that might not have the chance to without proper interaction with air.
This is my take and of course has no scientific backing other than what I have read and personally experienced.