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In this Discussion
- bentstick June 2013
- crozdog November 2013
- emptyglass June 2013
- FullySilenced November 2013
- googe June 2013
- harley November 2013
- Law_Of_Ohms June 2013
- Lloyd November 2013
- LunaBrille June 2013
- monty June 2013
- Myles November 2013
- nvnovrts November 2013
- Pretender November 2013
- punkin November 2013
- RedDoorDistillery November 2013
- sandsquirt November 2013
- Smaug November 2013
- spud1700 June 2013
- Stinger November 2013
Comments
Hi RDD, I bet you'll pull better than 94%. Remember that the boiler and the reflux condenser also count for plate value.....That makes 13 plates. Pulling 95% is not the issue. Can pull 90% with two plates. How fast you can pull 95 is the question.
StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America
Exactly. How fast is the question. I know I could get to 95%+ but how much reflux will it need and what is the output? With my Vodka I am going for as smooth and pure as I can get but at a respectable output as time is money. My plan is to strip with all 11 plates (13 as you say) but I want to find the balance of speed and %. Then run it thru again to get the purity I am looking for.
Hi smaug I remember so asked them, 9000dollar for a 6 "with just 6pc plates .... This price issue I've had with them, I asked how differe can be so extreme between a 4 "with 6pc plates and a 6 'by 6pc tiles ... and was told that the copper is so expensive ... Strange because here in Sweden it is not copper especially expensive and there is no reason that the price will differ by less than MAX 2 times more expensive than a 4 ";-) 6" is probably about twice as heavy as 4 "and it is no expensive components on a Flute (only more hole in the sieve plate) .... so you could say that HB trying to shined them startups commercial ..... and this benefits only every other manufacturer ..
but this is my personal opinion, maybe HB have Gold in theres flute somewere a relly dont now ... but a now that Kothe have gold, real goldplating on there bubbelcaps and plate in some plants Cheers :ar!
RDD am relly intressed in yours mash from wheat and how to convert starch into sugar...
Gold plating, Harley?? About 3 or 4 years ago I had the idea of gold plating a 2" copper pot still (at the time a 2" pot still was still king of the hill and a 2" Boka was in very close contention) but common sense and my inability to gold plate anything killed that idea.
Glad to hear that others are doing it.
Diamond and ruby studs...
What are you talking about Lloyd, all you need is a good cupcake or doughnut. Maybe some Hershey Kisses? Mmmm yummy peanut butter.... Like the girls say, a moment on the lips, a lifetime on the hips.
...was wondering if anyone was catching the sig line :D/
I'm not sure of mixing plates in a column after yesterday.
My one prototype 4" perf plate (2mm holes on a 4mm grid) arrived so I set up a 4" x 6 plate column and ran it. The other plates had 1.5mm holes. The 2mm holes plate was positioned second from the top and it performed badly. Weeping on the half of the plate that refused to bubble. The other side of the plate directly under the downcomer bubbled well enough though not great.
The bigger holes were not bad, I'm convinced that they are the correct size, they simply created a pressure imbalance between the plates.
The smaller plate holes caused a lot of bubbles but very little fluid on the plate. I'd like to see more balance there. The bigger 2mm holes was mostly fluid but was unable to operate properly because the 1.5mm hole plates below it was restricting the vapor speed.
Watch everyday to se what you come up with!
It is what you make it!
Secretly thinking he is getting hungry for american food.... Maybe some KFC next or ...an Arby's roast beef sammich
Lloyd. Try putting the 2mm as the bottom plate and then put the 1.5mm plates above it. See how it acts then?
After running it yesterday I reached the same conclusion, RD.
I couldn't help think that a slow graduation of successively smaller holes as the plates go up the column would be a good thing. ie, 2mm on bottom, then 1.9mm, 1.8mm etc... But that would be a lot of work for an experiment and a nightmare to produce and stock - even if it did work as pictured in my head.
Anyone else here running 2mm holes on there perf plates?
Bentstick i think is ....
172 holes per 4" plate @ 2.38 mm- 3/32 in, have plates and modulor sections for 3 more plates waiting for head room to put together. Which will bring column to 6 plates
It is what you make it!
Bentstick makes some awesome stuff .... even though though he likes his hole big....
That's comforting. The 2mm holes look huge compared to the 1.5mm holes.
Have a pile of plates with different size holes,found what I can use and be happy with taste and out put,average run is 102.85 0z/3..04 liters an hr and when I kick it up 144 0z/4.25 liter an hr,my average take of rate is 120z/.35l every 5-7 mins not hyper speed but makes good drink!
If the glove don't fit you must aquit! =))
It is what you make it!
Lloyd.... Might have to have you get 11 8" plates done with 2mm holes to run them and test after I get the 1.5mm plates up and running. Side by side compare of power required, throughput, and taste.
Did you simpily have the same hole layout drilled to 2mm? This would increase the open area from 10% up to 23+% if I did my math right. Or did you change the layout to maintain around a 10% open area?
On a 5mm grid the open area is about 10%
Hi
Fester if you have 2mm holes with 4mm pattern and has maximized the number of holes on a 4 "plate then you have a hole% of the wet surface activation far over 12% ....
Why should you mix different hole sizes and hole% in the same column?
Mixing different hole sizes and hole% is not a good idea for them requires different speed of steam to function properly ...
It's all about holes% of the activation wet surface and one can have between 1.5 mm holes and up to 2mm but the bigger holes the narrower destillationsband, but for certain types of mash-Molash so is probably 2mm preferable.
Give me all the exact dimensions of your 4" plate and even exacta number of holes, because I guess you have the same number of holes both in the plate with 1.5 mm hole and with 2mm hole if it all are in 4mm pattern ... and then learn the different lots of holes%.....
Cheers
Harley, the dimensions are shown....
see the excel calculation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty6eY9VUIgI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty6eY9VUIgI
If you use the 2mm hole so the pattern will be between 5 -5.5 mm depending on whether you used your own downcomer ( take more plate place for the cup is big on the botton-underside and there can you have NO HOLE) or traditional 12mm tube that is soldered into the plate .. and the hole% you choose to put you on, but the larger the hole, the lower hole% and less small bubbel and product out in the other end ...
Cheers :ar!
Plate size 107,5mm = The volume is 36 305.03 Cubic millimeters (mm3) Hole size 2,2mm =The volume is 15.21 Cubic millimeters (mm3) 10% of 36 305,03= 3 630,50/ 15,21= 238,69 hole to get 10% But you must but you have to pull off the surface for return to obtain the exact wet active surface ... and is it Sd down comers, it has a circumference of 22 mm in plate Plate size 107,5mm = The volume is 36 305.03 Cubic millimeters (mm3) SD downcomers = 22mm = The volume is 1 520.53 Cubic millimeters (mm3) Wet active plate area is 36 305,03 – 1520,53= 34 784,50 Hole size 2,2mm =The volume is 15.21 Cubic millimeters (mm3) 10% of 34 784,50= 3 478,45/ 15,21= 228,69 hole in 2,2mm to arrive 10% of the wet acive plate area.
Maybe I'm counting wrong, you may well check if my end result is correct
Cheers :ar!
Should that 3 be a 4??????
but with such large holes that 2.2 mm is so think, just think that 8% of the wet active is the max for it to work as a distillation column and not a stripper ... and 10% with 2mm hole and up to 12% with 1.5 mm holes but this is just a theory and based on calculations and the experience of others who are in this bransh so far ... so now we are testing on and get the figures-numbers as correct as possible and working practical too ..
Cheers :ar!
I've been told nothing can top a Boston Chilli Dog. Never been to Boston, but one day....
I was also going to say don't let Harley get word that you are using anything but "the perfekt 1.5mm hole as is best used in your still" but I was too late.
I use 2mm, or more accuratly 1.95mm/ 0.0768" holes, and havn't had a prob even with my odd design downcomers. The stills I have made for others to these specs havn't been thrown through my window with a nasty note on them. The opposite is true so far, they have all been happy.
Lloyd, I think if you put that 2mm plate at the bottom or the top you will have better success. I cant see where you are wrong, the difference in how the 2mm plate performed has to be due to the othe 1.5mm ones in the path restricting its ability.
Another 2c.
Next week I will hopefully be finished as far as I can send away a number of 1.5 mm copper sheets 1 +2 m on punching and then I will punch out an about 10pc in 4" - 107,5 mm with 1.5 mm hole in 4mm pattern and for SD return -downcomers which I will send to Fester, he can now compare these with any other types and configurations. I have no way-chans to run as small as 4 ". Then a can allso calculated exactly the hole % ....
Report on a real field test in 4" will hopefully come soon and then you get an unbiased opinion ;-)
Cheers
Uppdates... • “Plate size 107,5mm = The volume is 36 305.03 Cubic millimeters (mm3) Hole size 2,2mm =The volume is 15.21 Cubic millimeters (mm3) 10% of 36 305,03= 3 630,50/ 15,21= 238,69 hole to get 10% But you must but you have to pull off the surface for return to obtain the exact wet active surface ... and is it Sd down comers, it has a circumference of 22 mm in plate Plate size 107,5mm = The volume is 36 305.03 Cubic millimeters (mm3) SD downcomers = 22mm = The volume is 1 520.53 Cubic millimeters (mm3) Wet active plate area is 36 305,03 – 1520,53= 34 784,50 Hole size 2,2mm =The volume is 15.21 Cubic millimeters (mm3) 10% of 34 784,50= 3 478,45/ 15,21= 228,69 hole in 2,2mm to arrive 10% of the wet acive plate area. Maybe I'm counting wrong, you may well check if my end result is correct”
This is what it shall be if you roll a coppersheat – tub around this 4” 107,5mm plate BUT if you put it betven-in the meddle of 2pc 4” ferrules than we must do all calculations from beginning… Because it is only 97,70mm in size in my 4” ferrules inside…NOTE 107,5mm… 97,70mm column diameter= Wet active plate size =The volume is 29 987.41 Cubic millimeters (mm3) SD downcomers = 22mm = The volume is 1 520.53 Cubic millimeters (mm3) 29 987,41-1520,53= 28 466,88 is the WET Acive plate area when you have calcutate away downcomers… Hole size 2,2mm =The volume is 15.21 Cubic millimeters (mm3) 10% of 28 466,88= 2 846,68/ 15,21=187,15pc hole in 2,2mm to get 10% if the plate is betven 2pc 4” ferrules with a mm of 97,70 inside….
So my result is that you shall have 187pc hole in 2,2mm to get 10% of the wet active plate area with 1pc sd downcomers ( 22mm on top side) and clamped betven 2pc 4” ferrules( 97,70mm inside)…. Maybe someone can control my END resultate….
Cheers :ar!
Some of the columns out there use holes as big as 3/8", but I think this is more to do with fouling of the holes due to WHAT has been fermented. I remember something about mineral deposits from molasses based fermentations.
Are any of you experiencing fouling issues, and do you do anything more than steam clean the plates? Acids or other chemicals as part of your cleaning process?
My small column is being built with valves, but cleaning will still be an issue. At the moment I just intend to run water and steam through it at the end of a run.