We had some interesting discussions about random packings here.

I’ve been looking for something a little better than mesh or scrubbies. I’ve tried some 6mm ceramic rashig rings but they were too slow for me.

I’ve looked as the super rashig rings but the HETP is around 280mm/11” which is a bit excessive for me as I’m not doing on-grain just yet and want to get more plate equivalents in the same height if I can.

This brings me to something like Pro-Pak which provides HETP closer to 2” in a 4” column.

My problem with this is that I am weak on the fluid and vapor dynamics and the information provided by the manufacturers varies to the point that comparing them fairly gets tricky.

• Do I want more liquid hold up or less?
• Do I want more free space or less?
• If I want to maximize vapor movement AND rectification in a 4” what should I be looking for?
• Are good old 8-12mm stainless rashig rings the solution? What about helicoils? Spiral preformed packings?

I’m having a hard time finding objective comparisons of media with high HETP.

Can we aggregate some good information and studies in this thread

• Here (PDF) is a couple from the above thread
• Info RASCHIG Super-Ring-250 (PDF)
• Study of random column packings (PDF)

@Smaug .... does not help me now as I am now 99% complete but for info and pricing ?? and what surface area ?? performance ??

I have seen a few people whom make these but not in the same way as I have.

Given the performance was best with the smallest size (20mm) in a roughly 8" x 10' column, I say go with the smallest.

However, looking at Alibaba, there is even smaller yet - 15mm (Super Ring 0.3) - suspect it's going to be fairly pricy, as the packing density and weight starts to hit absurd levels.

@Fiji_Spirits said: Ask and you shall receive.

Thank you!

Conclusion

The results of this study on packing performance in ethanol-water rectification demonstrate very good efficiency of random packings. The best is the smallest dimension of Raschig SuperRing with a mean value of HETP = 0.28 m. It is 28 % better than the structured packing, HOLPACK, used currently in the ethanol production industry

I say we go in on a cubic meter of the smallest or next to smallest stuff..

I think you will find that it nowhere near the performance of the super rasching rings. The weight per cubic meter is going to be huge, the surface area lower, the flow resistance higher..

I'm not necessarily looking for absurd HETP, but the IMTP style in 15mm - that's 15" equivalent height per plate. That's not necessarily high distillation performance.

Yeah, to some extent some of the unique shaping has more to do with being able to protect the IP behind it.

The big brains do the development on the next best thing, and then the copycats jump in once the big boys move on to the newest design.

Two things to keep in mind that drive shape, that we don't necessarily care so much about.

Ability to clean in place, and the ability to support it's own weight without collapse. In a huge column, things like this are more important than sheer HETP performance.

You are absolutely paying for the engineering behind it, because at first glance, it looks like a bit of scrap metal that's come off a press as the left-behind waste. Believe me when I say that Koch Glitsch is very proud of their metal bits.

@Smaug said: Hi performance? How so?

looking online

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tft2lHQzLmY

that is third gen(1970-1990) IMPT design

The new stuff is 'Raschig Super-Ring' is like this: Raschig Super-Ring (PDF)

I think we should see what size is good for 4/8/12" columns (likely the smallest ones) and do a group buy

I would buy a bucket/5-10lb worth or more

Hi performance? How so?

304 Stainless Saddle RIngs for sale for packing your column - $20/quart or $70/gallon plus shipping

Mate I've run your recipe through Beersmith using barrel burstone wheat malt (not how white trad ale) and english flaked wheat (cause I done't have the spec for blue lake). Beersmith tells me to expect 1.045 for 23l at an efficiency of 72%. I tried again using JW trad able and got the same OG.

Upping the trad ale to 2kg and the flaked wheat to 6kg will get you to an OG of 1.075 for 23l. If you don't you need to look at things like your crush, water ph, mash tun setup (does it maintain temp?), false bottom / brain / manifold.

what sort of performance do you get on a beer mash?

Forget dextrose - it's too expensive for what you get - use regular white sugar instead (if you do use sugar) as it's around $1/kg and available everywhere.

Although this reducer set up will optimize the performance of your thru tubes if you are running a shotgun.

By Courtesy Of @Ukioye

After using cheap but workable eBay controller for 18 months, I treated myself and upgraded to the StillDragon Element Controller box [Large].

Selected ‘Large’ as I wanted to add in a power meter and a 1-0-2 switch as per reading elsewhere on this forum.

@punkin was quickly efficient, as usual, and the goodies arrived pronto. It was another 10 days for the eBay parts to slowly trickle in – then it was all systems go!

The overall aim was to end up with this panel layout.

The StillDragon large box gave me more real estate to move about in and the overall layout was as this:
[the meter’s wires (circled) to the CT are not connected in this shot as they are very short.]

A few close-up and explainations:

General layout; CT ring for power meter on the active [brown] at top left. I put it on the inbound [supply] active to include measuring the consumption of the SSR. You could put it on the outbound [load] active to tighten up the readings..but hey...

The CT ring is cable-tied to the active inbound – mostly to stop it flopping around. [Does not everyone dance around their distillery with the creation that they made?...OK call me weird]

The terminal block is laid-out with current ‘input’ coming IN at top and ‘OUT’ at bottom of terminal block.

The addition of the 1-0-2 [aka break-before-make type switch] made the wiring way more complex..but doable. Not sure if it really adds anything to the performance, life or heat output but it was cool to do.

The StillDragon supplied SSR is top quality – the fittings, clear terminal cover, heat-sink size, heat paste–make it top quality. The best result of all their care and attention is that it that it becomes one less thing to concern about when the real aim is to get a top distillation output. This thing is not going to crap out.

Interior of top panel – showing [L to R] the Ebay 1-0-2 switch [660V 16A 8 terminal], the StillDragon-supplied potentiometer and the (unconnected) eBay meter [PZEM-061]

So the whole thing goes together as this:

SMOKE TESTING

Under testing on a 40W lamp – using position ‘1’ on the switch.

This bypasses the SSR (see dial is set to 0%) and meter indicates a load of 42.9W

With current going through the SSR [via switch position ‘2’], and the StillDragon potentiometer set at 0%...well we get 1.8W – all being consumed by the SSR.

At 50% setting we get ~20W and a dim light bulb.

As expected 100% gives 43W and the light-bulb goes on bigtime!

As an aside, I graphed the output Amps against the rotary dial settings.

The graph shows a typical S curvature...meaning that all the fine control is in the middle of the settings (where you want it) and anything above 90% is flat-out and below 20% is negligible.

All in all, this is an excellent piece of kit. The selection, collection and supply of all the parts is superb. The value is unbeatable, the quality is top notch.

As an aside – I later wanted to do a similar job to my ‘old’ controller – a cheapo eBay regulator:

I went along to JayCar [a RadioShack type place] and purchased cable glands, small enclosure Box (171x121x80mm), terminal block, some crimps and four rubber feet. [but no heat paste, no SSR]

The price came to AUD$50.80 – just AUD$9.21 less than the StillDragon large controller including the SSR! Needless to say, I went home and poured myself a stiff drink.

Do yourself a favour – get a StillDragon large controller for good value, good features, quality parts and piece of mind.

Ukioye, April 2018

Download: StillDragon DIY Element Controller Kit Large Box Review (PDF)

@DonMateo I agree, but @bachman asked for a two head filler. Which might not be a better choice, I've seen some multihead fillers that are a lot slower and therefor comparable in performance to the 1-head Enolmatic.

Personally I'm surprised so few people go for a potstill instead if it's flavorful product they are after. Get a 1m or longer riser pipe in the same size as the port on top of your boiler, only use a reducer if you must, then a 180 degree bend preferably in the same size, then into a product condensor again in the same size as the last step if possible. I can tell you the performance is great with my current setup (8" riser, 8" 180d bend, reducer to 4", 4" product condensor). Not just for stripruns, spirit runs as well.

@Pa_bon said: Thanks richard

grim the head is a Geopump Easy-Load 2 High Performance

The drive is a Geopump 2

I am using 3/8 ID tubing with 1/8 wall

I have a Geotech Geopump for sampling monitor wells and anchialine pools. It never occurred to me to use it for filtering spirits.

Thanks @richard

@grim the head is a Geopump Easy-Load 2 High Performance

The drive is a Geopump 2

I am using 3/8 ID tubing with 1/8 wall

Update

I received the packing a few weeks ago. Beautifully packed in a solid wooden box which fit the items exactly so it probably wasn't a standard size. I thought someone had sent me a couple of bottles of rare Isla single malt or vintage cognac.

I haven't had enough wash or time to do any comparative testing, but I used it last night on my four inch column- 2 meters of the structured mesh and 2 meters of scoria-my first run with both-plus a sight glass filled with scoria and a couple of bubble plates for something to look at. With a column that height and so much packing I can make no judgement on performance for either product. Bear in mind also that I started mashing and distilling about 3 months ago and most of my time has been occupied trying to figure out how to do 40 gallon all grain all wheat mashes without blocking my soon to be ex therminator, (solved by getting an exchilerator) and how to strip wash the all grain wash with electric elements without scorching it, which I haven't managed yet and have had to resort to gas.

The 4 meters of packing worked as expected and I was able to get nearly 6.5 litres ph at around 96% on my electric parrot, which I don't think is set up optimally yet and varies a bit from my 90-100 abv alcohol meter.

Apart from the excellent packing and responsive communication I was very impressed by the ease of use of the mesh. The 3.8 inch sections fit perfectly and seemed not to require any support although they were resting on the scoria during the run. They're extremely light which made it very easy to lift in a 2 metre section, unlike the scoria, which is a definite keeper but very heavy and quite messy if you're not careful.

The mesh looks very similar to some of the sulzer and boegger products and you can find far better measurements on their sites

Structured Packings - Energy-efficient, innovative and profitable (PDF)

and

Wire Gauze Packings – Woven Meshes for High Separation Efficiency

@crozdog said: you can add up to 10% trisodium phosphate to increase the performance. "Triclenium" (available in bunnings) is 100% TSP ;)

Recipe is then: 60 % sodium percarbonate 30% sodium metasilicate 10% TSP

Thank you.

you can add up to 10% trisodium phosphate to increase the performance. "Triclenium" (available in bunnings) is 100% TSP ;)

Recipe is then: 60 % sodium percarbonate 30% sodium metasilicate 10% TSP