Be part of our community & join our international next generation forum now!
Hi everyone,
I'm a newbie here and in this field... I'd like to start a production of 25 liters per day of whiskey and/or gin. Does anybody know what kind of StillDragon equipment i might need?
Any suggestion is well appreciated :)
P.S. I apologize in advance for my English, not my first language.
Comments
Need more information.
What is your power? Electric? Steam?
What is your plan for whiskey - on grain or off-grain (lautered)? On-grain processes will require steam jacket or bain marie.
Are you leaning more towards gin or whiskey - as these require very different column configurations.
Sizing? Probably 380 liters and an 8" column.
Were about are you from
If you have access to steam, that would be best, then next would be direct electric.
I suggest a 380L steam or bain-marie boiler with agitator for the wash, and then you can use a 50-120 l boiler that is steam/bain-marie, or electric to make the 25L of final spirit...
I see you state Italy, I am not sure of the regulations there, but here in the US, a consultant that knows the codes well enough to convince the city officials what the code really means is a plus.
I tasted some good homemade spirits in my friend's italian hometown of Assergi (Gran Sasso)... all except the Timo.. (thyme liquer) that was horrible!
Also, you need to be a little more precise what product you're going for.
Gin isn't the same as whiskey. If you want to make your own base spirit, you need to go more for a neutral that you can re-distill as gin.
Whiskey, 380L is the way to go. 6" or 8" column depending on the speed. Number of plates depending on flavor you're looking for (2-4).
The other question is how much money do you have or can afford to spend.
Hi Drake!
Welcome!
First, Gin and Whisky are 2 different beasts, so for the beginning, if you don't have already experience with one of them, it should be the questions, how soon you want a return of your invested money.
If you like Gin and do have an idea of an exiting recipe, it might be a good idea to start with this. Simply, because you don't need to keep it in storage for 3 years and pay the taxes on the angel's share and such. Gin is a good start to build up money.
Most of our Gin distilleries don't do the neutral themselves but buy it ready made. So they only use a simple boiler and a Gin Basket Kit to produce the Gin. Most say, that they have all hands full with the right recipe and don't want to spend time and money for the equipment for making neutral.
We have quite nice 380L boilers in stock, they are perfect for the task and have a good volume/price ratio.
StillDragon Europe - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Europe & the surrounding area
well, in his defense, gin does not have to be as nuetral as vodka (mine is, but looking at changing that).
Yes, it has to be clean, but with the right base and cuts, 180 proof is fine, and with a 50-120L spirit still, you can change from 3-8 plates fairly easily... or he can put 4 plates on a 380 for whiskey and stripping, and 8 plates on the rectifying still for gin base...
in the EU according to food/beverage codex, Gin has be made of neutral if you want to name it GIN
StillDragon Europe - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Europe & the surrounding area
That's why Brexit won.
I'm more like I am now than I was before.
thanks everyone for the comments..there are here way more informations than i have been able to find anywhere else :) 380L and 8 columns is pretty much what i was thinking of. Nobody have talked about a fermenter in the comments..=) next question is : what kind of equipment and setup i might need, using the same boiler, to make the neutral by my own and then 3 days Gin and 2 day Whiskey, (thinking on a working week base).
and :
could you be more specific? thx :)
Planning to make gin from your own neutral (or semi-neutral), which you are making from grain, as well as whiskey, mashing 5 days a week, and producing product 5 days a week (probably multiple distillations a day), not to mention all the cleaning associated with mashing and distilling 5 times in a week.
How many employees are you going to have? If this is a solo operation, you will not have enough time for any other aspects of the business unless you are working 16 hour days, 7 days a week.
Realistically, scale your equipment and process so that you can mash and distill for 2 or 3 days of the week and make your product output numbers. Sizing for a 5 day operation (trying to minimize equipment costs) is going to put you in a position where you have absolutely no ability to increase production without scrapping or adding equipment. In addition, if this is a solo affair, running 5 days a week means you will have no bandwidth to actually sell.
yup... Steak and kidney pies for everyone...
well, @Sunshine corrected me... it has to be neutral for you in the EU, and real, true 190 takes a lot of work at 8 plates (I use 24 and want more) so you are talking two vastly different stills... but not being mean, I was in the same boat as you 3 years ago......
I believe that you should take one or more week long classes/workshops... it helped me greatly...
and read what @grim said about time spent cleaning and time available for selling, he is spot on!
@Grim: thank you for that post.
StillDragon Europe - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Europe & the surrounding area
I found this table on a South African distilling supplier website and it is a nice matrix of the things that you need for making whiskey at least, with matching equipment sized by boiler size. Anyway a useful table.
Equipment sizing guide 14 august 2016 (XLSX)
Don't go into this business if being a janitor does not appeal to you.
Or you are so desperate to leave the cube farm that you will do just about anything. Thats where I am at.
15% abv mash is not realistic commercially.
Yes, I noticed that. Apart from that and the bottle production requirement its not a bad table. But what do I know I am not running my own distillery, yet.
Yeah, otherwise it's ballpark.
Thats interesting. What do they say you have to do to call a spirit NEUTRAL then?
StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand
have to use ready made neutral (with certificate) or use a still with at least 20 plates.
StillDragon Europe - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Europe & the surrounding area
Regardless of how its run? That doesn't sound very German.
Sounds like a crazy law.
StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand
pffft.. crazy ain't got nothing on the EU....
REVEALED: The EU's top ten pointless decisions the UK can now get rid of @ Daily Express
That 'crazy' list says a lot more about media and marketing to idiotic {insert citizens of your favorite country here} than EU law.
Edited by @Moonshine: Although I did not consider this comment as insulting on first sight, please keep in mind that irony may be seen differently around the globe.
OK.. I got it.. I def have to buy the neutral :)
After thinking about all the comments and all the tips that's the equipment I had in mind. Let me know if you guys think that's right:
Now the questions..
Thanks everyone =)
Definately possible with the Double Dragon.
In stainless or copper.
You can have this set up however you like with say 4 plates instead of the whiskey hat. You can add stacks of floor standing plates to increase your plate count and choose your booler configuration.
StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand
I use no plates with my gin, I start with zero-defect spirit and run it through the botanicals.... no need for plates whatsoever.
Does anyone else have concerns about getting "juniper taint" from running delicately-flavored distillate through still parts that have recently handled juniper? It's why I distill my gin essence in a separate small still and add to neutral for my gin.
The reason I'm sensitive to the issue is that I used to have a glass gallon jug that had gin essence in it, and even hot chlorine bleach couldn't get the juniper smell out, at least not until repeated treatement.
Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
my book, Making Fine Spirits