Rum Configuration

grim

Wray and Nephew is not be a baseline for clean white rum - it’s about as funky and high ester as you can get in a readily available high fogo funky Jamaican rum.

It’s very hard to replicate Wray.

punkin

You can get specialised carbon too, ask your yeast or carbon suppliers there. You can make a barrel aged navy rum and pass it through carbon designed to remove colour and leave flavour if that is what you are after.

Or as @grim is hinting, try some other silver rums.

Smaug

Let us know your opinion. But keep it real. Lelemand was giving it away for a while there. Some reckon it works. But also reckon it's not the holy grail.

Let us know.

CothermanDistilling

Regarding aging of the wash or spirit, I have accidentally seen unexpected smoothness in aging low wines for a year in just a plastic tote..

Might try some hot backset to thin the molasses?

Might try different temperatures and yeasts (white star direct has a good prices in the US once you register, the 500g yeast containers drop in half when they are in your cart)

I do 400kilos of blackstrap in a 1000L ferment, and run a stripping run to about 75-80 proof in a bain marie, then do a spirit run on my SD direct element 380L with a 8" 30-plate Crystal Dragon to about 185-7 proof at about double the rate I make 190.. I think I get rummy flavor, but I do also do a full hour at total reflux.. I have done high-sugar wash additions and you can tell it in the taste right away....

Sam

@CothermanDistilling when you say you strip to 75-80 proof are you talking about the low wines you have collected or the proof of the spirit coming off the still?

Also with the ageing of low wines accidental or otherwise was the difference worth the effort, would you get a similar result ageing the finished rum in the same way?

JayTee

Thanks for all the helpful comments guys.

Hmm. So my heart is in my dark rum and this is going pretty well, but it is going to be on oak for a while before I can start selling. That's my main reason for wanting to make a white rum - I can de-risk the whole adventure. Regarding all the suggestions:

I can't age the wash @Smaug or significantly lengthen my column @CothermanDistilling because my current distillery building is too small to hold the amount of wash required / ceiling height etc.

In order to significantly increase the reflux I would need to add a packed column. I have no other use for one, so I'm trying to decide if increasing the reflux to support 95% rather than 90% would make a positive difference on the flavour retention via this method. I haven't found any postings as to whether a given level of reflux supplied by bubble tees versus packed section delivers all the same properties.

I've phoned my rep at Lallemand today as per @Smaug's comment but they don't sell carbon. I've been given a contact to speak to and will revert here with any interesting updates.

I found a reference in "Distiller's guide to rum" regarding Blackstrap imparting more flavour @grim). My only issue with the buildings being so small is that I'd struggle to support a separate molasses type at this stage. I'm hoping that an increase in reflux will do it. If anyone has experience of the packed column versus bubble tee comparison, that would be much appreciated.

Cheers guys

grim

A good approach for flavorful yet clean white rum is the 1.5x distilled approach (hat tip to punkin)

Ferment a batch cleanly, clean yeast. I use Lallemand LS/EC-1118. Try to ferment on the cooler side, make sure you are using nutrient. I use no backset. This is your bulk ethanol.

Strip this off at a higher proof, I strip on plates and generally collect low wines at about 50-60%. I take all fores/heads, but I tend to cut tails earlier than your would on a traditional strip.

At the same time, ferment another batch, traditional rum yeast, I use Lallemand RM. I use a small amount of backset. This is your flavor.

I combine the low wines with the wash, then distill together. The higher alcohol content makes it far easier to run it off at high proof without having to run excessive reflux. I can hit 180-185pf on 4 plates at a brisk pace.

2 low wines to 1 wash ratio will give you an even cleaner profile - higher output proof. The nice thing with this is you get more of a full flavored molasses profile in a clean white. I don't think it's possible to match this flavor profile in a single pass, or by using only strip/spirit. Some kind of witchcraft involved in the half/half run style. I'm telling you, it's almost like infusing clean alcohol with molasses flavor, it works so well it almost feels like cheating.

If you strip the flavor portion and add it to the low wines, you completely lose the impact.

We recently tried this approach using Demerara sugar for the clean bulk ethanol portion and loved the result.

grim

Decolorizing barrel aged "white" rum for our white rum is by far the worst process we execute at the distillery. It is incredibly messy, problematic, finicky, awful. Dealing with the powdered carbon necessary for decolorization is a disaster. You can't even open the bag without creating a cloud of black dust that gets everywhere, let alone weigh it out, dose it, mix it, and then filter it out. Ever time you do it, you need to test at least 3 small samples on the bench, and filter them - this is the only way to determine the grams/liter dosage necessary to decolorize without negatively stripping flavor. Your fingers are black for a week, even wearing gloves.

punkin

@grim is correct with the 1.5 run process. I remember back when I accidentaly discovered this years ago and thought that everyone was keeping it a secret on the home distilling forums. turned out most of them just didn't know about it.

My favourite process for fruit brandies for sure. It also works very well for a pot stilled bourbon.

Smaug

@punkin said: @grim is correct with the 1.5 run process. I remember back when I accidentaly discovered this years ago and thought that everyone was keeping it a secret on the home distilling forums. turned out most of them just didn't know about it.

My favourite process for fruit brandies for sure. It also works very well for a pot stilled bourbon.

Yep Garry. This protocol (as you described) was the baseline for my rum education all those years ago when I was still a young whippersnapper.

That just about when you were banned for being some kind of,,,,,,what was it?

grim

One thing I’ve always wanted to try was collecting the heads and tails from all the final white rum runs, doing a really funky molasses ferment, and the mixing the whole lot together to try to get a batch of higher ester funk Overproof rum. Bottle that up at 150 proof for the crazy tiki nuts. Won’t yield a lot of product, probably wouldn’t sell a ton either, but it’s a fun cocktail focused product.

Smaug

@grim said: One thing I’ve always wanted to try was collecting the heads and tails from all the final white rum runs, doing a really funky molasses ferment, and the mixing the whole lot together to try to get a batch of higher ester funk rum. Bottle that up at 150 proof for the crazy tiki nuts. Won’t yield a lot of product, probably wouldn’t sell a ton either, but it’s a fun cocktail focused product.

I've tried something similar and was too heavy for me. I reckon I'd need a rig with Cotherman's plate count to make something I could personally cope with? But those guys at the Miami Renaissance Rum Festival would prolly be pretty enthusiastic about that level of rum funk.

JayTee

@grim said: I combine the low wines with the wash, then distill together. The higher alcohol content makes it far easier to run it off at high proof without having to run excessive reflux. I can hit 180-185pf on 4 plates at a brisk pace.

Wow! I never once considered that the limited alcohol in the kettle was the cause. I didn't realise that a clean result could be achieved with less reflux. Thanks again.

For the EC1118 brew, you mention to cut tails earlier than you would on a traditional strip. This presumably would not support me using my Continuous stripper from @Smaug? Reason I ask is that I'm a bit constrained on on traditional batch equipment currently (kettle way too small)? Appreciate this would limit the alcohol in the Spirit run a little? ...

Smaug

John you can still benefit by utilizing the basis of this technique. Though you can't make a heads or tails cut on the continuous stripper, boosting the abv for your spirit run will still give you more compliant still behavior.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if you reduced time tending the still at the end of a fiscal year by boosting the abv of your final kettle charge. I'm thinking a pair of strips through the continuous and then a spirit run. And if you're worried about flavor loss then a small measure of beer in the spirit run kettle charge.

Smaug

Though some do prefer to make cuts on their strip, I never do (did).

grim

On the strip one of the reasons I tend to cut early is because of diminishing returns. Not really a factor when you are talking about continuous.

crozdog

I note you're running 10 plates. Remove some to get a fuller rum character - I pull 90+% from 4 plates. Combine that with the 1.5 run process & I reckon you'll be sweet

grim

I've not wanted for more plates than 4 with the 1.5x process. The higher the abv boiler charge, the more significant the response to increased dephleg. flow rate (reflux rate).

JayTee

Awesome! Thanks guys :-)

crozdog

i'm running rum today & am pulling 92% off 4 plates. yum

JayTee

I think I went over the top with 10 plates! Lol

LazyDog

@JayTee are you stripping everything, diluting and running a spirit run?

We're just starting out, so very much still finding our feet on what works for us (absolutely not in too much of a position to give advise!) but i'd say our silver got better by stripping 75%(ish) of the wash, then diluting the low wines with the balance of the wash.

We're running through 3 plates, with the wash consisting of Tate & Lyle bakers grade, and a mixture of two different washes with separate yeasts - one targeting clean, one targeting duuuurty.

apologies if i'm teaching you how to suck eggs!

CothermanDistilling

Took delivery of a molasses storage tank today.

punkin

Nice, wish we had an upvote or like feature.

grim

Cool

Smaug

@JayTee said: I think I went over the top with 10 plates! Lol

Not really the same John since your beer is introduced at the 10th plate.

Smaug

Oh yeah wtg @CothermanDistilling !!!

Guess you'll have to spring for a proper pump soon lol.

Beerideas

@CothermanDistilling I'm going to regret this, but how big is that monster?

Smaug

Looks like 10,000L from my lofty perch ?

Smaug

More than that I think.