Rum Configuration

punkin

crozdog

thanks @Sam. that have some interesting ingredients

Fiji_Spirits

I have not done rum But I have used ec1118 in hot temp ferments. I will say that unless the ferment temp is kept under 30c that it produced undesirable flavors for me when trying to make a neutral. It was bad enough that it was actually not any better than bread yeast at those temps.

I suspect that a molasses ferment gets pretty friggin hot like at least 34c and up so the ec1118 probably wouldn’t give any real advantage.

I’m not so advanced in my fermenting abilities that I could even begin to mess with multiple yeast ferments and see a difference. Hell im just brushing the edges of doing staged feedstock additions.

If it were me I’d want to perfect a rum using a yeast I knew worked then start dicking with things like nutrients and temps and alternate yeasts all while perfecting my distillation and blending technique. Once I had those well in hand after a year or two then MAYBE I’d look at multiple yeasts.

IME there are different flavors thrown by different yeasts but you are far better served working out the infinite details of fermentation, distillation and ageing which will show much more pronounced effect than a multiple yeast ferment perfectly done in conjunction with the other aspects of creating a great spirit.

grim

For clean anything, I generally stay under 24c. I don't even run my funky dark rums that hot.

Sam

I was thinking of trying the EC-1118 at around 20 degrees

FloridaCracker

I've been using Red Star DADY for rum and try to keep the temp down but have never had a "bad" run even when the temp gets away. Here in our part of the world a ferment can easily go 100F+ if not controlled. I do my best to keep it under 90. The good thing about Red Star is that you can overpitch without taking out a loan.

FC

Sam

So I made the cuts yesterday and ended up with just over 10L @ 65% which I have put on Oak dominos to see what happens.

Whilst this was lighter and cleaner than the other rums, its still not a light silver rum. In order to get a lighter rum I was thinking about either increasing the plate count or adding a packed section at the top of the column.

Is there much of a difference between the two options? As in if I were do double the plate count from 4 to 8 would that have a different effect to adding a packed section?

punkin

One way to find out.

DonMateo

@sam. What punkin said. Give it a go mate. Then do a slight variation, then make some more. But I am the kind of guy who more is more. Which is why I have 800l of hard liquor in my storage room. Still its only getting better.

Sam

Oh I will, I just don’t have an extension to pack... might it be possible to use some spare T Sections and instead of using plates pack them with copper scrubbing mesh?

As in put all 8 T Sections in the the column, put 4 plates in the lower 4 and pack the rest with scrubbers?

Would I need anything to hold the packing in place or if its packed tight should it stay put?

DonMateo

@sam. You can get sieve pieces and you can get T-sections with a plate and large holes in them for packing sections.

Sam

So back at the beginning of Jan I did a spirit run on some rum I had stripped a few months before. It was made from Panela and fermented using Distilamax RM.

For the distillation I ran it through with 8 plates and collected at 94-92% ABV. It was certainly way better than my other attempts but still had a harshness and heat to it that ultimately I don't want. (I'm thinking of giving EC-1118 a go next time).

Anyway I figured I'll be buggered if I'm going to keep throwing rum down the drain until I get exactly what I wanted so I put some down to age with different wood options to see what happened. As a side note I also had some raw spirit left over that didn't go onto oak, so I charcoal filtered half of that and have the two samples just sitting on the shelf gathering dust.

Below is a photo of how things are looking after almost three months on oak. From left to right:

• French Oak Medium Toast
• French Oak Medium Toast Charred
• American Oak Medium Toast
• American Oak Medium Toast Charred
• French Oak Medium where the dominoes had been macerated in Port & Sherry (individually) for a few weeks

There is still a harshness to the Rum which I was expecting given its only been 3 months. What I wasn't expecting was the charred French Oak, it was soooo much smoother than the uncharred French Oak. There was also a difference between the American charred and uncharred ones but the difference was more subtle than the French one which just hit me the moment I smelt it.

The 5th one which is the port and sherry oak is also showing great potential and I am holding out a fair bit of hope for that.

I don't have the most refined palate so for me to pick up on the difference means it much be huge.

Moving forwards I think I will be charring my dominoes a lot more as the difference is staggering. If it wasn't for the sake of experimenting and being thorough I would pull the uncharred oak and put the samples on charred oak. Sadly I won't see the long terms effects though so in the interests of science I will leave things as they are.

Also the cork stoppers on the keg are a bust, I don't think its breathing that much and they started to fall apart when I took them out. I am going to put the standard sealed lid on them and try to put the oxygen stone in each one for 30 minutes once a month.

Still a way to go but I'm finding it really interesting seeing the differences first hand.

richard

Personally I would not have did what you did ..... you did a spirit run @ 92-94% ABV and also with 8 plates. Basically you stripped the flavour.

I would have collected at ~60% ABV for ageing with flavour and without plates or maybe max 1 or 2.

Those better in the know will have their more informed comments.

Sam

My logic was that I'm trying to make a light rum, hence the plates.

Reflecting upon everything I think my biggest issue was the yeast and fermentation temperature produced a heap of Fusel Oils.

Next time I am going to use EC-1118 so hopefully it's lighter.

punkin

You won't lose the flavour in rum, only make it change, i would not oak it under 65% myself.
You are on the right track not making a choice yet.

Rum takes well over 6 months and more like 12 in my experience to get the mollasses to shine back through the oak. The toasted sticks will take longet than the chqarred to do thye simple thing the charred is doing. The charred will take longer to catch up to the complex things the toasted will now bring later down the track, if it can at all.

Clickeral

Most commerical white rum is aged rum that has been run through charcoal to remove the colour. In Australia due to the Bundaberg rum laws, in order for product to be called rum it has to

In Australia it is law that whisky, brandy and rum must be stored in wood for no less than 2 years.

rum means a spirit obtained by the distillation of a fermented liquor derived from the products of sugar cane, being distillation carried out in such a manner that the spirit possesses the taste, aroma and other characteristics generally attributed to rum.

This is the reason Bacardi can not be called rum in Australia.

I like my white rum straight off the still, 4 plates. I use lowens bread yeast, stockfeed molasses, dunder/backseat, Dap and water. I ferment as hot as I can get it and then let it sit till I have time to run it.

Have aged my product on multiple dominos and prefer french oak (reused from bourbon ageing is also good) haven't tried charing but willdo next time.

If you are wanting a light white rum then you need to age and then charcoal filter it.

Aging wise I use glass cookie jars or mason jars. I open mine once a week/when I remember , give then a swirl and sesl them up again

Fiji_Spirits

@Sam said: My logic was that I'm trying to make a light rum, hence the plates.

Reflecting upon everything I think my biggest issue was the yeast and fermentation temperature produced a heap of Fusel Oils.

Next time I am going to use EC-1118 so hopefully it's lighter.

I get quite hot spirit at same ABV when my temps go above 31c. I’ve used SR but not RM.

Another contributing factor to heat in panella IME is letting the fermenter coast for more than 12-16 hours after it’s done. I run non air locked fermenters and I think I get some acetobacteria infection taking over after yeast slows down.

Ec1118 is even more sensitive to higher temps. Above 29c I have issues with heat and poor quality.

richard

Colouring understood with charcoal filtration for white rum, but do you notice any change in taste ??

punkin

Believe it or not, the best white rum i ever tried came from my 3" Vapour management column pulled off at 96%, watered down to 51% and not even carried past a barrel.

CothermanDistilling

Agreed, I run 94% on 30 plates and it is still very flavorful on the rum... both with 100% molasses and 100% panela... even 95% for sanitizer has the great rum flavor...

Sam

So I was thinking about what everyone has been saying re plates or no plates and have decided the only way I can decide which is right for me is to experiment a little further.

I currently have 100L of Treacle on the shelf and a load of EC-1118. So, I'm going to do up two identical batches using these ingredients and then run one through in pot still configuration and the other with 8 plates and see what happens...

I also have a thumper I can attach but think I will leave it off for now to keep things simple.

I'm also going to hold fire for a few months and see where that first batch goes before I do this.

JayTee

@CothermanDistilling - I've been trying and failing to create a flavourful white rum straight off the Still. I've been using 10 bubble plates and looking to maintain around 90% abv. I've noticed I can taste very slight off flavours if it drops to 88% abv, so that appears to be the minimum target. However, when I dilute back to 40% (although I don't believe 50% would be much better), the result is a very slight rummy vodka. Just like my dark rum (which is lovely), I'm using 100% full flavoured molasses in the fermentation, so it must be the reflux that is stripping the flavour. Any idea what I'm doing wrong please?

CothermanDistilling

Are you using any white sugar? That sounds like what happens when you use more than half white sugar.

Smaug

For me, anything straight off the still has to have the ABV run up a little higher. It otherwise needs to go to sleep and have time to round out.

You might have some luck aging your rum beer and then running it off at +90%?

I've never been able to make anything I cared for below 89%. Especially using black strap.

JayTee

@CothermanDistilling - No, I'm using 100% top food grade molasses. That's why I'm so surprised. I do strip the rum wash first, otherwise I've been having issues with burning. I don't have a bain-marie boiler - just exposed elements (without an agitator currently).

@Smaug - What do you mean by aging the rum beer please? Like leave it for a couple of weeks? I thought my problem with stripping out the flavour was too high an abv, but I bow to greater knowledge so thanks for that :-)

Smaug

@JayTee said: CothermanDistilling - No, I'm using 100% top food grade molasses. That's why I'm so surprised. I do strip the rum wash first, otherwise I've been having issues with burning. I don't have a bain-marie boiler - just exposed elements (without an agitator currently).

Smaug - What do you mean by aging the rum beer please? Like leave it for a couple of weeks? I thought my problem with stripping out the flavour was too high an abv, but I bow to greater knowledge so thanks for that :-)

Yes. Aging the beer lets some sour qualities develop that make for some florals in the finished spirit. Mind you I don't have a controlled environment and results may vary.

punkin

My white rum was feed grade mollases and raw sugar. I didn't use backset as it made the rum taste to strong for what i wanted it for (cocktails).

I'd pull it off at aezeotrop (95+%) through a VM column, and dilute to 51%.

Was my favourite thing of all the things i made. Vodka was my aim, but i realised that i'd never do that with mollases.

Rummy vodka sounds about right to me for white rum.

JayTee

@punkin said: Rummy vodka sounds about right to me for white rum.

Ah ha! So I guess my problem is that my vodka just isn't rummy enough. I couldn't even say it's obviously rum. A good contrast is Wray & Nephew's overproof rum. When I sip that I can taste a rounded rummy flavour. Since I'm only using food molasses (no sugar), I don't understand why the flavour is getting stripped out. I'm wondering if distilling at around 90% is taking too much heads out of the distillate? i.e. I'm being forced to discard more distillate (and therefore flavour) than I would probably have to do so if pulling a much higher abv?

Anyone think I'm on the right trail?

punkin

I suspect it's the food grade mollasses being too clean. But there are others here that have much more experience than me.

The sugar i was using was raw sugar which is just sugar with mollasses added back in.

Sam

For what its worth I would suggest getting your hands on the Distillers Guide to Rum, its a great book with heaps of advice but short and sweet making it easily approachable by pros and hobbyists alike.

For me when I read the book it was the fermentation temperatures that jumped out, once I got that right my rum went from a headsy flavourless mess to something quite yummy.

I can't wait to try some Kviek yeast on my next rum, yeast often gets overlooked in my opinion and its a big factor on flavour.