Mother of Dragon is here!

grim

150l is probably below the real limits of commercial viability for many, especially in a higher cost area.

Running 6+ hours to make ~20-30 bottles?

Smaug

@grim said: 150l is probably below the real limits of commercial viability for many, especially in a higher cost area.

Running 6+ hours to make ~20-30 bottles?

+1

Unless you also plan on selling other items out of your space.

MotherOfDragon

I know 150 liter is too small. Its just me being stingy about my budget. I am going for the 380 liters pot. Otherwise I will regret it after a while. My neighbour in business started up with a 250 liter pot and just uppgraded the equipment to a 1000 liter.

Hernö Gin - The Most Awarded Gin in Europe 2013-2015

Sunshine

that is what we always tell our customers, that they will upgrade in a year or so. No one believes me, but so far they all did. ;)

We have also 500L...

Kapea

@minime is in da house!
Good to see you!

punkin

The good thing is that with the modular nature of the StillDragon idea, the equipment is not obsolete and can be reused or repurposed.

A 150l or 380l boiler will make a very good infusion still for Akvavit or Gin. The individual components like bends and condensors can also be reused and save money on an upgrade.

CothermanDistilling

150L coudl make a good base for a continuous still ;-)

I say get the 380L with agitator... I have the non-agitator, which I had it... and people here who have read Stirrer, not Agitator know it ;-)

FullySilenced

When @minime talks you should listen...

happy stillin,

FS

MotherOfDragon

@CothermanDistilling said: I say get the 380L with agitator... I have the non-agitator, which I had it... and people here who have read Stirrer, not Agitator know it ;-)

Thanks! I will read that thread after work today :)

@FullySilenced said: When @minime talks you should listen...

Absolutely! I always listen to experience @minime.

TheMechWarrior

Just chiming in to say.... I love the name! And a belated welcome. :)

minime

@Sunshine said: minime: sorry, but turbos would be an absolute no go for me.

LOL They sell more turbos in a day than all of the other yeasts combined sell in a month but NOBODY on the forums will admit to using them. Expensive but they are a no brainer way of getting the job done....you can also buy 'em bulk for the commercially minded folks. Mother of Dragon doesn't appear to be thinking on a commercial scale however......

Thanks for the welcome Larry......I'll shut up now

grim

Turbo = high tolerance yeast + dap/urea + glucoamylase

It gets a bad rap because low cost, high tolerance yeasts usually aren't the cleanest, and trying to ferment anything way over 10% is going to further increase off flavors. When you are pushing the limits of grain, converting maltose to glucose with GA is just pushing the stress higher.

Combine this with the fact that it's pushed on rookies who might not have the best sanitation protocol or fermentation management (especially temperature) it's no question the end results aren't going to be at the top. It doesn't help when the labels tout outrageous tolerances and the users actually try going to high-teens.

Using a straight distillers yeast, some basic dap nutrient, and if you use enzymes, you aren't far off from doing exactly the same as turbo.

But, most of us are driven to do the best we can, so any slight chance of mediocrity and many will just shut it right down.

MotherOfDragon

Hi!

In the States as in many other countries in the world, you can go to a supermarket to buy booze. Not in Sweden. We only have Systembolaget. If you want to be successful you have to compete with the classy brands. You should also participate in international spirit competitions and earn some medals.

I've been brewing beer for a long time (and I make really fine ales :D) so I am not new to mashing or fermenting. I know the importance to have fine ingredients and that different kind of yeast gives different kind of flavours. I never use turbo in my beers and no one of my fellow craft breweries does either. The ones who uses turbo in Sweden are the moonshiners and they distill vodka. I admitt that I am totally new to distilling though and will gratefully listen to advices.

It takes time to start up, but if and when I do, I surely will test diffrent kind of mashes and yeast to compare the outcome.

@minime said: Mother of Dragon doesn't appear to be thinking on a commercial scale however......

Some of you might think that my rig is too small for commercial distilling, but I think it is smarter to start small and then develope.

Unsensibel

@grim said: Turbo = high tolerance yeast + dap/urea + glucoamylase

It gets a bad rap because low cost, high tolerance yeasts usually aren't the cleanest, and trying to ferment anything way over 10% is going to further increase off flavors. When you are pushing the limits of grain, converting maltose to glucose with GA is just pushing the stress higher.

Combine this with the fact that it's pushed on rookies who might not have the best sanitation protocol or fermentation management (especially temperature) it's no question the end results aren't going to be at the top. It doesn't help when the labels tout outrageous tolerances and the users actually try going to high-teens.

Using a straight distillers yeast, some basic dap nutrient, and if you use enzymes, you aren't far off from doing exactly the same as turbo.

But, most of us are driven to do the best we can, so any slight chance of mediocrity and many will just shut it right down.

+1 and in my mind applicable for sugar washes and to get a quick start.

I can't imagine on a commercial scale turbo's being more cost efficient than buying DADY and nutrients separately with the added benefit then of staggered nutrient addition.

Sunshine

Most Austrian Distillers would be happy if the could use a 380L or 500L boiler, everything over 150L is forbidden. But they can live which so small sizes, too. It's just a question of the right story telling and hopefully a good taste ;)

FullySilenced

@sunshine so you just need to get your bit and pieces and figure out a 150L continuous still set up that really works... :D

SDeurope

@FullySilenced said: sunshine so you just need to get your bit and pieces and figure out a 150L continuous still set up that really works... :D

Continuous distillation is also forbidden here in Austria, unless it's a bonded distillery. The 150L still with up to 3 bubble sections / bain-marie up to 0.5 bar is the limit for unbonded distilleries.

grim

I would imagine the "sizing" of a continuous still would be based on the largest fermenter it could be attached to, or the largest tank in the facility.

FullySilenced

@grim was my thinking as well...

jacksonbrown

or how quickly you want to empty it.

HurdleCreek

@Sunshine said: I have proof: we in Austria have Stroh Rum - made of sugar beet molasses. It is o.k. in tea when you go skiing, but not more. It is quite popular, though.

MotherOfDragon: Welcome to our forum!

We think Jaeger tee with Stroh Rhum is A+++. We ski much better after it! so much so we're looking at making our own version for our local ski fields in Australia.

MotherOfDragon

Hello all! I've been a bit depressed lately trying to find a place for my business. The factory I showed you before in an another thread needs a lot of refurbishment for a lot of money. But now I have learned that a company will start building these sheds in August. The estimated costs will be $235 per month for 78 square meters. What do you think of that?

punkin

Looks a nice little space. You are going to need a forklift or a gantry though, perhaps they can build in a gantry for at construction time?

I'm lucky as we sort of have a shared forklift in the little industrial park where my warehouse is.

MotherOfDragon

That space on the second floor is optional like many other things. When I write a contract with the constructor they will build in what I need. Like stairs, toilets, gantrys and so on. You can build the second floor up to 50 square meters. I think it is smart to use as much headroom (8m) as I can. I was thinking of having my office there.

On the ground floor I will have access to water, drains and 25 amp. It is also possible to merge two sheds for a bigger place. I feel a lot happier now :D

Sunshine

looks good to me and astonishing cheap. We would dream to have such lease prices here.

Unsensibel

Lease sounds too good to be true! 840 sqft for $235/mo??? :-O

Typical (inexpensive) for the US would be $5/sqft/yr or about $350. But that's if you're renting 2000+ sqft.
Is that typical for your area?

25Amp sounds a little bit on the weak side, especially if your going electric heating (6 x 5500W = 33kW => 140A @ 240V).

Ceiling height and accessibility looks great though. You can racks in there to store vertical.

CothermanDistilling

In the US, it is common practice to have the lease say that you do not start paying on your lease until you have your 'occupancy', that is until the officials say you can start occupying your space for the intended purpose to make booze.

FullySilenced

25 Amp service is really really light... you may want to calculate what your loads maybe... i cannot even imagine less that 100 amp service .. our minimum here its 200 now i think...

Kill_Devil_Spirit_Co

Kill Devil started in a 725sqft, 100 amp warehouse. For perspective, that'll run a 380L 6plate using 22kW w agitator and circulation pump, with just enough left over for lights, computers and a microwave haha

Smaug

@Kill_Devil_Spirit_Co said: Kill Devil started in a 725sqft, 100 amp warehouse. For perspective, that'll run a 380L 6plate using 22kW w agitator and circulation pump, with just enough left over for lights, computers and a microwave haha

And how did the AHJ feel about that?