Mother of Dragon is here!

MotherOfDragon

@Smaug said: Welcome Mother. Can you introduce yourself please.

Hi @Smaug and everybody else!

I am a girl from Sweden who is thinking about having a career change, from teaching mathematics and natural sciences to distilling :)

I have been brewing beer for some years and have become quite good at it. Unfortunately the market is already full of microbreweries in my area. In Sweden, as in other places in the world, we have experienced the growing of microdistilleries as well. Only in my area we have The Box Destillery (Whisky) and Hernö Brenneri (Gin).

I have been lurking around this forum for a while now, but have been too shy post anything. I am reading and learning and tomorrow I will meet a representative in my municipality who can help me find a place for my business.

There is no way I can compete with the whisky and gin production here. Instead I am looking towards rum distilling and the making of Absinth. What do you think of that?

Smaug

Welcome again Mother.

Without knowing anything about your potential market,it would too difficult to determine if your initial direction is sound.

How much market research (and net working) have you done?

How familiar are you with your regions alcohol spirits laws?

Will you be able to sustain yourself if you sell no spirits for a period of say,,,,,3 years?

grim

What's the cost of Molasses in Sweden? Is there a viable local source?

MotherOfDragon

I am about to do some investigations about the rum market. There is only one rum distiller in Sweden and they seems to have a declining product. It is made of sugar beets and haven't had any good reviews. If only I can come forward with a better product I can take the market, I reckon. I will also speak to Systembolaget. All alcohol beverages above 3,5 ABV must be sold in Systembolaget and not in any other places. One positive thing about that is that they are forced to buy my products. :)

The spirit laws are rigid and there are a lot of permissions to apply for. Others have done it so I can do it too.

I will not quit my daytime job before I can see that it is possible to live from my business. The thought of absinthe is that it is an product which is not needed to stored. I can sell it at once.

@grim said: What's the cost of Molasses in Sweden? Is there a viable local source?

There are production of molasses in Denmark and Sweden, but it's from sugar beets and made for feeding animals. I have to import sugar cane molasses or panela. I haven' t made contact with a company for molasses yet.

punkin

Another thing you can do is look for a waste stream locally that you can convert and base your product line on that. Getting base material for free or next to free not only gets you a head start in business costs but also in the all important story.
In most cases it's the sizzle that sells, not the sausage. :ar!

FullySilenced

I bet Sugar Daddy could ship a container of Panella or Molasses in a heartbeat... or I am sure there is a supplier in Africa that would have good clean molasses or fancy molasses syrup.... there would just have to be one...

I have heard beet molasses makes horrid rum but i have no factual proof of that...

Find a niche market and shoot for the STARS Miss.... have fun and enjoy

FS

Smaug

Panela would be a very good product and also easier to ship and handle I would imagine.

Talked to @SugarDaddy already. He is game.

MotherOfDragon

@Smaug said: Panela would be a very good product and also easier to ship and handle I would imagine.

Talked to @SugarDaddy already. He is game.

Great! I have to mail him then.

@FullySilenced said: I have heard beet molasses makes horrid rum but i have no factual proof of that...

That's what I have heard also. So I will not make that mistake :)

Sunshine

I have proof: we in Austria have Stroh Rum - made of sugar beet molasses. It is o.k. in tea when you go skiing, but not more. It is quite popular, though.

@MotherOfDragon: Welcome to our forum!

MotherOfDragon

@punkin said: Another thing you can do is look for a waste stream locally that you can convert and base your product line on that. Getting base material for free or next to free not only gets you a head start in business costs but also in the all important story.
In most cases it's the sizzle that sells, not the sausage. :ar!

I have thougt about contacting the sugar industry in Sweden in case of buying waste product from them for the production of the absinthe base. And you are right about the sizzle :) It is often more important to make a story around a product then the product itself.

MotherOfDragon

@Sunshine said: I have proof: we in Austria have Stroh Rum - made of sugar beet molasses. It is o.k. in tea when you go skiing, but not more. It is quite popular, though.

mother: Welcome to our forum!

Thank you! Nice to be here :) I have tasted Stroh once in my youth. I really hope I can do better than that.

FloridaCracker

Welcome!

If you are competing with "rum" made from sugar beets, uh...... you probably are one step ahead already if you can get molasses or panela. Sugar beet rum just sounds disgusting. You are lucky that you are here as there's a lot of rum trials going on between me, Grim, and a handful of others. As a matter of fact, I just fired up the still to do a spirit run on 14 gallons of 50% rum low wines.

When I first started out, I cut my teeth on info supplied by another Swede, Gert Strand. Ordered an e-book which outlined how to build a still and how to make a wash. That was 1998.

My grandparents were from Sweden so you already have a fellow Swede here! Good luck and have fun!

Sunshine

Rum is currently the new Gin here in Europe. Aged product are even more trendy.

grim

If shipping is prohibitive I get you could cut panela with cane or beet sugar and still yield a superior product than beet molasses, which I hear is horrid.

MotherOfDragon

@FloridaCracker: Really nice to hear you have swedish roots :) Do you know what part they were from?

I have been reading The Big Dunder Pit Thread. Hopefully I soon will be able to be with you there. I have found Gert Strands page too. I don't think I will build his legal still though. A question here: Do you use turbo yeast or special rum yeast like the one from Lallemand?

Rum @ White Labs - Pure Yeast and Fermentation (PDF)

@grim said: If shipping is prohibitive I get you could cut panela with cane or beet sugar and still yield a superior product than beet molasses, which I hear is horrid.

I have been thinking of that too or mixing a smaller amount of molasses with ordinary sugar. Has anyone of you ever bought from International Molasses? I reckon they are expensive?

Molasses For Rum @ International Molasses

grim

I'm about 5 miles from IM

FloridaCracker

MOD, I have never used turbo yeast and I would suggest the same for you. They have horrible ratings and you will want quality over quantity every time. I use Red Star bakers yeast. Cheap and really gives the rum a nice flavor. Most people that I have followed have found that bakers yeast is preferred for rum. 8% ABV in a wash is a good number to shoot for.

My Grandmother was from Omberg, I think is the spelling. She came over in 1906 to the US. One thing on my bucket list is to visit Sweden someday.

MotherOfDragon

@FloridaCracker: That was just what I thought about the yeast, but I needed to ask that question anyway.

Omberg seems to be a very beautiful place. I think you should come here so we can meet up :)

An update on my business plans. Today I met representatives from my municipality and a person from a business incubator office. They all seemed very excited by my ideas and are going to help me find a place. So maybe I can say "the die is cast" now.

Smaug

Excellent news. Good luck.

FloridaCracker

Definitely keep us posted on your progress.

minime

Hey M O D.......I've done a lot of experimenting on rum. If I was getting into a startup distillery for rum I wouldn't shoot for aged rum at all, nor would I spend any effort on products for the elite. If you want to sell your product to the masses keep it simple and sweet. 1) ferment the cheapest sugar source you can find. 2) turbos ARE very efficient and fast up to about 14% (you're gonna take out most of the flavor anyway! 3) strip 4) distill on a reflux column up to about 94% + and add about 5% fancy molasses to that spirit run along with a healthy dose of anti foam agent. You'll have a product that girls love and guys can't argue with. It ain't for everybody but it'll satisfy 90 percent of the people and 70% will think it's the best product they ever had ;) You're not lookin' for bragging rights remember......you just want to make a living........

Cheers, from an old hand

Sunshine

@minime: sorry, but turbos would be an absolute no go for me. The rest also. But that is only me...

Smaug

Miniiiiiiii,

Thanks for chiming.

For those of you that don't know, minime has been distilling long enough to know what is and what is not possible.

I would say never say never until you yourself know first hand. Though it is true that traditional methods for traditionally made spirits are easier to gain acceptance within a specific part of the market.

Hope all is well minime :)

grim

For a clean white rum EC1118 is like $40 for a 2000 liter pitch. You can easily harvest, split, and repitch 3 generations giving you something like 18,000 liters for fourty bucks, and that is using a darn good yeast. With a good nutrient protocol, smart yeast husbandry, decent sanitation, and the fact that EC is a killer strain, you can save a ton, that is cheaper than turbo.

grim

Or whatever else yeast you want to use.

MotherOfDragon

I will be experimenting alot when I will be able to do some real distilling. Today it seems like forever to be doing it legally. I'm actually thinking of borrow a potstill from a fellow illegal moonshiner ;)

I think you are right about the girls @minime. I think there are more girls who drink rum rather than whiskey.

MotherOfDragon

I have some questions about my hopefully future purchase. I want a still in which I can produce a large range of spirits. My intention is to produce spirits with much flavors as rum, absinthe and maybe whiskey. I am thinking about buying a potbelly with a 6’’ column. How many bubble sections do you suggest?

Another question is: Agitator or not?

@grim. I just became a follower of Silky City on Facebook. What a nice still you've got!

punkin

We can offer a 4 in one, pot still, pot still with thumper, column still or gin basket.

MotherOfDragon

@punkin. I was thinking of beginning with this configuration below. Maybe I will go for a 380 liters belly instead of a 150 l. I am not really done thinking there.

The gin basket looks nice, but I rather macerate separately a few days and then run it through.

Do I need a thumper?

punkin

No mate the rig i posted just offers the most flexibility is all, but is a much larger scale than what you are looking at.

MotherOfDragon

In a couple of years I may have grown out of my 380 liter pot. We can only hope! Then we can talk about a 1000 liters configuration :)