DIY Power Controller

Anavrin

Yes it's more expensive than the DIY kit but that's because it meets international standards such as CE marking and RoHS compliance, I doubt very much it would be even legal for a business to supply the DIY controller if it was already assembled due to the lack of CE marking, I have no doubt it works perfectly well but it wouldn't stand up to any international standards if tested.

The two links in my post above would be a perfect solution for customers looking for something ready made.

SDeurope

The SSR is the only electronic part in that kit, and it has the CE mark. CE is not a certificate, but the manufacturer's declaration that the product meets the requirements of the applicable EC directives. So if you build an appliance with the DIY Controller Kit parts, and you meet the requirements of the applicable EC directives, you can give that appliance the CE mark yourself. All of our components are without doubt RoHS complaint, according to the RoHS directive product labeling is not required, in fact for RoHS2 the CE mark is the only permitted indication of RoHS compliance.

As said, we'll be looking into offering a compliant ready-to-use controller and elements with 1" BSP MPT thread in the future.

Anavrin

I love this forum, it makes me smile when the day gets boring :-)

I have no doubt the components are individually CE marked and RoHS but I could make something with CE marked components that when used causes electrical / RF interference to other electrical equipment, such a device would not gain CE certification just because the bits in side are individually CE marked.

Anyway, in the first instance I was simply sharing with the community and recommending the controller I've been using with many years of fault free service.

FloridaCracker

@SDeurope said: With the main difference that such an AVR costs a multiple of our DIY Controller Kit. ;)

We already had inquiries about ready to use controllers, and it's something we are going to look into as well.

For now our DIY Controller Kit is a great option, and it really is very easy to assemble, but of course we have to give the advice that such works should be left to an experienced electrician anyway.

I'm no electrician and mine works just fine. Very inexpensive compared to ones already assembled. Have a feeling I am going to have to expand mine soon as I am thinking of adding another element to my boiler.

I do understand the disclaimer though.

CothermanDistilling

At this point let me defer to a request that I made in August of 2013.... to have SD make basically what that thing is, but integrated with the EGK.... proof again that even thought I am a bit snarky, I have a good handle on what people want....

punkin

@CothermanDistilling said: At this point let me defer to a request that I made in August of 2013.... to have SD make basically what that thing is, but integrated with the EGK.... proof again that even thought I am a bit snarky, I have a good handle on what people want....

Undoubtedly.

Smaug

@punkin said: Undoubtedly.

+1.

Speaking of which,,,,,,,Michael what should I have for supper this evening :))

CothermanDistilling

snapper....

Topshot

I ran it twice yesterday at 2kw and it was cool.

Great piece of kit. Easy to wire (if you know basic electrics).

Thanks all.

EdInNH

I have been attempting to add a power meter to my element power controller. So far I have failed with three attempts.

The first attempt was a panel meter which displayed volts and amps and worked for 1 hour. Then there was the smell of burning electronics smoke and the first meter failed. The second lasted for 2 more hours.

The second attempt was an eBay problem. The meter looked like a better choice since it would display power as well as volts and amps. I ordered two units (one each for my two heating elements) one arrived missing the current transformer. The seller wanted $10 “shipping” to supply the missing part (on a $16 meter with free shipping). A refund was eventually arraigned by eBay.

The third attempt also displays voltage current and power. I modified my case (each meter version has a different size) and hooked up the new meter. I turned on my heating elements and immediately had a problem. One of the meters backlight didn’t work. I varied the power setting and the meters would cut off when the voltage was below about 80 volts (as I expected from the meter specs) and the meter with the working backlight was showing an unbelievable power level (4 Watts) from my 5500 W element at 140 volts. The meter without a backlight was displaying a power level close to the expected values. After a minute of changing the power settings the meters emitted the odor of smoke, a loud buzzing sound and both displays shut off.

I am now 0 for 3 installing power meters on my boiler.

I see two possible sources of the problems with attempts 1 and 3:

1. The meter is not suitable for low voltages which a phase angle controller produces for low power levels. A voltage is produced by the current transformer for the low applied voltage situation and the meter is not compatible and possibly reverse biased (similar meters instructions warn that the voltage must be applied before the current input is applied).
2. The fast rise time of the voltage produces high frequency noise and these meters are not compatible with the high frequency components of the input voltage.

What else could be going wrong (with attempts 1 and 3)?

Has anyone found an inexpensive power meter compatible with a phase angle controller?

Are the inexpensive DIN rail power meters a better choice?

I have a whole house power meter on my service entry (an Efergy E2 Wireless Electricity Monitor). With the Efergy I can monitor my total power consumption. This unit works well but I need to mentally subtract the other household electric use. It is confusing when other electrical devices in the house turn on or off.

BourbonJunkie

I have been buying this meter and have had no issues... I have used 3 of them...

Blue LCD AC volt & amp combine 2 in 1 panel meter 300V 50A for 110V 220V 240V @ eBay

... however, I am taking the voltage supply to feed the meter from before the SSR.

EdwinCroissant

The internal power supply of these meters is based on a serial capacitor a diode bridge , a couple of resistors, a zenerdiode and a low voltage capacitor. This works as long as the supply voltage is a nice sine wave. Connect this supply to the output of a SCR and the sharp rise time that occurs when the triac is fired result in a high current spike through the capacitor. One of the resistors will overheat and after some time the capacitor will fail also. Therefore never connect these meters to the output of a SCR or they smoke as you found out. But you don't have to, some of these meters performs some kind of magic so that they do not need the voltage across the load to calculate the real power.

So far I have tested the DL69-2048, the Peacefair PZEM-006 and the Hiking DDS238-2 SW with a 10000W SCR with digital control (which works only at 50Hz) and found that these meters measure True Power and True RMS amps. I expect the Peacefair PZEM-061 you tried also to measure real power.

The DL69 is nicely build.

The Hiking is a DIN rail power meter with an isolated pulse output. This meter does not remember the last display setting, so you will have to press the button 7 times to get to the power reading when switched on.

The LCD of the Peacefair is protected by a easily punctured soft plastic screen. Is the screen from the PZEM-061 hard or soft?

grim

Have had zero problems measuring power off the input to the SCR, not the output. Sure, you aren't 100% accurate as the SCR isn't 100% efficient, but who cares as long as the measurement is consistent, which it is.

If you are anal about exact numbers, I believe an SCR will emit 1.5 watts per amp conducted as heat.

EdInNH

@EdwinCroissant The PZEM-061 screen is hard plastic.

I tried another experiment. I replaced the burned out PZEM-061 meters with new meters and rewired to get the voltage before the phase controller SSR. I knew that this would give high readings for voltage and power as the phase controller SSR clips the voltage for less than 100% power. But this would give me a nice linear power scale. (I already had the case cut for these meters.)

The two meters appeared to work when I started my next distilling session. After 2 or 3 hours the left meter started reading crazy numbers (9999 AMPS). The next session (and all later sessions) both meters worked at the start but the left meter goes crazy at about the 2 or 3 hour mark, the right meter goes crazy about an hour later.

EdwinCroissant

@EdInNH said: EdwinCroissant The PZEM-061 screen is hard plastic.

Thank you, this is an improvement :-)

@EdInNH said: I knew that this would give high readings for voltage and power as the phase controller SSR clips the voltage for less than 100% power.

The magic of this meter is that the power it's displays is the real power :-) You can check this by setting the power level to 25%. When you multiply the current and the voltage you get about twice the value that the meter is showing in Watts. (At 25% power your power factor is 0.5)

@EdInNH said: But this would give me a nice linear power scale.

I think that the conceived non linear behavior of the SCR's is actually a measuring error. If you measure the Amps and Volts with a non True RMS meter the measured power will be way to low compared with the real power during most of the travel of the potentiometer.

@EdInNH said: The two meters appeared to work when I started my next distilling session. After 2 or 3 hours the left meter started reading crazy numbers (9999 AMPS). The next session (and all later sessions) both meters worked at the start but the left meter goes crazy at about the 2 or 3 hour mark, the right meter goes crazy about an hour later.

Disappointing :-( If this is a software bug switching the meter off and on again should help. It can also be a temperature issue if the meters are mounted in the same box as the SCR's and get really hot.

Deuce67

I have a 5500 watt element controller I'm trying to make myself. The source power is coming from a 50 amp RV plug 4 wire with a 50 to 30 amp step down bone that looks like a dryer plug receptacle that is then plugged into a 3 wire dryer plug attached to the controller then in to the bottom legs of a 30 amp switch. Will this set up work, also the controller is not in the image but attached to the SSR. I should have just bought one...

Unsensibel

Why a switch and a SSR?

ElectricEd

@Unsensibel said: Why a switch and a SSR?

To turn it on and off. ;)

Unsensibel

Isn't that what the plug its for? :D

Deuce67

I would like to shut off the element instead of a hard disconnect. And the plug is also so I don't have both ends hard wired in.

Unsensibel

Looks ok. However you're showing a SSR20. If you're planning on running 5.5kW I would at least go to a 40 or 60A rated one

Smaug

@Unsensibel said: Isn't that what the plug its for? :D

Sometimes the pot can bleed current.

Deuce67

@Unsensibel said: Looks ok. However you're showing a SSR20. If you're planning on running 5.5kW I would at least go to a 40 or 60A rated one

Ok I will upgrade that, so 30 amps is enough to run that element?

Smaug

The element will draw about 22 amps.

30 amp circuit is best here in the states. 25 would be fine but not sure how the AHJ would feel about that amount of cushion?

Smaug

You'll only need 3 conductors to run the element. Two hots and a ground.

A 4th conductor would be a nice bonus to power a 120 v fan

CothermanDistilling

I have fried 25A SSR's when using 30A, and then 25A circuit breakers, I have had 99% less problems with 40A SSR's and 30A breakers..

Smaug

I was referring to a 25 amp circuit Michael.

Unsensibel

@Deuce67 - From my experience, the difference between a 20A and 40A SSR is only about 5 bucks. IMHO the best is to oversize than to fry one & I would always larger than the max rated amperage of your circuit

Unsensibel

@Smaug - I thinkt the 50A are 4-wire as they carry ground, neutral, and two hots

Smaug

Here in the states most modern major appliances (ranges and cloathes dryers) are set up with 4 conductors because the circuit boards are powered with 110/115/120 volts.

As such most range and dryer outlets are set up (often as per code) with a 4 conductor outlet in modern houses.

Many older houses are still set up with the 3 conductor set up.