Fester's Corner

Law_Of_Ohms

instead of a valve, its much easier to control the flow rate threw the dephlegmator. Basic DC motor controll, Use an Arduino to monitor temp and add the motor controller shield. Use DC pump.

olddog

There you go, someone with a bit of Knowledge, I am not implying you are a nerd.

punkin

You can just buy these valves ready to go can't you?

I'll have to dig Rikus book out and have a look. A search on Artisan may be handy too, or one on the arc forum if anyone who's better than me at searching is a member there. Probably forgotten my login there.

Lloyd

temperature actuated valve

Any of you remember these valves from the old Charles 803?
Completely automatic, a little pricey but dead simple and no electricity needed.
I had one but its been a long while - thinking you just turned an adjustment screw.
Ebay might get you a good new or used one for cheap?

olddog

Just looked them up on Ebay, they range from $100-200 they are made by a company called Penn

moscca

Very interested in this !!!

Chalmer

is this one that looks like it wouldn't be too constant.

FullySilenced

Chalmer, works on the same priciple as an automotive thermostat...

Fester did you feel the earthquake yesterday that killed like 81 people in China? You guys were going north and it was north.

Lloyd

A bit scared. We are going north to avoid the typhoon rains but the north has had earthquakes.
I feel screwed either way . South is heavy rain from the typhoon and north is earthquake aftershocks.

No shaking here in my little city but when running the still I don't tend to feel less than 6.0

Promised Tan 2 weeks travel at the worst possible time. Pray for me.

Lloyd

The 4" perf plates have been delayed in shipping to me so that upset our plans to leave for holiday. Had hoped to be gone now but its looking like day after tomorrow as we couldn't re-book our train tickets because they are sold out for tomorrow :(

I'll check in as often as possible but getting online while travelling is fraught with obstacles. Promise you pictures of sumptuous foods, exotic landscapes and local delights if I remember to take my camera battery charger this time.

RedDoorDistillery

Ok. I am looking into the Automated Dephlag control. Question has come to mind here. For the Valve we would have 2 options. Normally Open and Normally Closed. I can see advantages and disadvantages for both.

In a Normally Open valve if it failed the dephlag would go into full flow and put the still into full reflux or close to it. This could be a positive fail safe but could also cause column collapse and back pressure to build in your boiler if left unattended for a period of time. The Vapor Temp would fall quickly at the head so an Alarm could be setup to sound due to the sudden excessive drop in Vapor Temp.

In a Normally Closed valve if it failed the dephlag would shut off all cooling flow and the head temp would start to rise and you proof would fall. If not being monitored you could be taking off below your target proof. Again an Alarm could be set to go off when excessive over temp of the vapor is detected say +5 F or something like that.

Looking for input here. One way you can protect the product output proof. But risk overpressure of your boiler. The other way no risk to choking the still but your collected product would be below your target proof.

Thoughts?

Either way you would want the flow restriction on the output side of the dephlag so you can keep the dephlag full of water in a counter flow to the vapor setup. Cold in at the top and Hot out on the bottom.

punkin

Normally closed the risk is vapour to the atmosphere within seconds.

Myles

If you want to do this, and I can see the reasons for using automatic temperature control of the dephlegmator - I would like to suggest an alternative safe option.

Your failsafe option would be to have the dephlegmator cooling switch to MAX and direct all your condensate directly back to the boiler.

You could off course go the other way and use your product condenser as the failsafe and direct the product output into the boiler.

I am a big fan of reflux management and this is one of the situations where it applies. In a failure mode you really don't want the reflux in the column at all - it should have a secondary route directly back to the boiler for containment purposes.

Have your dephlegmator revert to full coolant flow, but re-route the condensate to avoid the column. You could open all the plate disable valves so the condensate can easily get back to the boiler.

Personally I think a single actuated drain valve on a by-pass line from the top plate direct to the boiler is a better option. But that's just my opinion. Flooding the column though is a BAD idea.
All this should be connected to auto-shutdown of the boiler. If you have a dephlegmator coolant failure you will not be able to continue the run at all unless you have a secondary coolant supply in place.

Back up the coolant system, or shut down and fix, are your two options.

RedDoorDistillery

@punkin in a semi closed loop system the vapor would still have to pass thru the product condenser which is supplied cooling water separately from the dephlag control so vapor to the atmosphere would only happen if your product condenser could not keep up with the amount of vapor. Or if you had a total water pressure failure.

@myles I agree that flooding the column would be BAD. That is why I was thinking Normally Closed as the fail state for the dephlag control valve. Worst case the head temp would jump up and the product output would fall. You can just re-distill it.

Either way I am not talking about total loss of cooling water to both the dephlag and the product condenser (Very Bad I have seen a Parrot Volcano before and it was not a good thing). I was simply talking about a control valve failure.

As I have thought on this I really think that Normally Closed is the right way to go. And then set an over Temp Alarm for Head Temp. If the valve failed or if you had a sudden loss of cooling water supply the head temp would start to go up and exceed the Alarm Temp bringing your attention to the failure as you puttered around the shop.

olddog

I can't see the problem here as the coolant to the product condenser should be running constant. We are only talking about an automatic controlled valve on the dephleg cooling. In the event of failure leaving the valve closed, the still would revert to potstill mode. In the event of failure leaving the valve wide open, the result would be the still re-stacking itself.

punkin

It would be a concern if you were running too much power for the product condensor to handle alone is all. In a commercial setting that may be possible.

Lloyd

It also matters what kind of still it is. A packed column still may choke but that's hard to do with plates unless the downcomers were WAY too small.

Lloyd

I'm seeing some new parts being released and want to chime in.
We often tweak our products based on recommendations from the users and Harley suggested to lower the slots on the bubble caps to push the vapors onto the plates and deeper into the plate liquid. It made sense so I re-tooled and made the change.
I also thought the shallower slots would be a good thing for the downcomer because it would allow more liquid to cover the bottom of the downcomer tube.

I see its first introduction here by fadge.

This seems to work fine with bubble caps but with the sieve plates it caused some plate flooding. It is a very easy fix should you have any flooding issues.

Just bend every other tab down, its very easy to do. It about triples the flow through the downcomer and still maintains more depth so the chances of blowthrough are mitigated.

In a few months the new riser will be released with the shorter slotted caps. It's a very clever design by the (in)famous Law Of Ohms. A picture of the prototype that is now in full production is below. The design allows for tighter tolerances so the problem of the occasional riser being difficult to push into the plate will hopefully go away. I personally have tested every riser ever sold by SD (now numbering in the tens of thousands) and there have been very few rejects. But even with a fail rate of only 1/2 of 1% that would have translated into a lot of unhappy customers.

*If I can push it into the plate hole and there is a small gap between the cap and riser so it will tighten securely to the plate, it passes. When I assemble them I sometimes need to retap the threads. If I do more than 500 at a time I tend to complain too much.

jonno

I was looking and looking at the photo trying to work out the difference until i actually looked at the at the caps and know what you mean now.

So shorter slots = better?

Lloyd

That's the hope.

emptyglass

@Lloyd said: temperature actuated valve

Any of you remember these valves from the old Charles 803?
Completely automatic, a little pricey but dead simple and no electricity needed.
I had one but its been a long while - thinking you just turned an adjustment screw.
Ebay might get you a good new or used one for cheap?

Why not get them direct from FS? Well, they do have his name on them.... :D

FullySilenced

:-t Sorry my inventory is depleted.... :((

Lloyd i like the shorter slots and also LOO's mod on the slots for the downcomers and bubble caps... GOOD JOB I'm a thinkin

punkin

Jeez you guys, i just had a customer last week ask if we had finished development on the caps and plates :))

Next time i'll answer 'Never finished' . :O)

crozdog

Punkin it's called "Continuous Improvement"

harley

eBay Search Results for: 1" Electric Solenoid Valve

Lloyd

awesome

It's further than you think that wall when you need to go

punkin

She loves taking pictures of your arse. Must be a real rough noggin.

HeadLikeADroppedPiePunkin

Philter

Very nice holiday pics Lloyd, although I can't see an "pick & flick's" :D

Just a question on whether you think there would be any interest (when you finish your well deserved break) in a 3/4" ferrule to 1/2" barb?

I'm constantly using my home made one to connect 1/2" ID (12.8mm) silicon hose to my pump, boiler drain, esky mash tun and parrot valve.

Something like these pics:

I've searched ebay and around, but can't seem to find one in 3/4".

What are everyone's thoughts?

punkin

I reckon the beer guys would love em.