The All Grain Thread

Ok guys, for the past year I have been doing various AG configurations and figured we could use a centralized thread. I've seen a lot of mentions about various types but they are scattered about and I couldn't find one definitive source. If there is one, mods you can feel free to delete this one.

I have been doing a 70/15/15 corn, wheat, oats that I really like. Been using PintoShine's enzymes and have had no problems so far. Also been using the steam mash tun that @Smaug and the rest of you guys helped me put together last year. Works awesome but found that it is a LOT faster if I heat the initial water to about 150F in my still then pump it over to the tun. Add the first enzyme then off to the races.

Aging in once used 5-15g barrels works great and I'm really happy with the results.

Thought about trying a 50/50 oats, wheat since I have two partial bags left over and using the same enzymes. I know what a bowl of oatmeal looks like and hopefully I won't have 50 gallons of it...........

Thoughts?

FC

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Comments

  • I did 49% oat just the other day.

    Little harder, not earth shattering.

  • @floridacracker mate. I have done a corn moonshine at 80/10/10 corn wheat and oats and i really like that kind of mix. The wheat and oats smooths out the corn. Highly recommended. I recently tried another mix that was up to 30% wheat with the corn and ot was goid but not as good as the kind of mix you indicate.

  • edited April 17

    I use whole oat with husk, the other 51% corn - the flavor profile is bold, spicy, licorice, coca-cola. Yield is low, because of the astronomical husk/grain ratio.

    My customers that are cigar smokers, really like the pairing, bold enough to cut through smoke, but in a complimentary way.

  • The oats that I use also have the husk. Do you guys crush or mill either the oats or wheat? Can't imagine that the conversion would be very good if you didn't but trying to lauter a flour mash is a major PITA. I have a grinder and try to just break the outside of the kernel but still end up with quite a bit of flour. Probably need a crusher ala what the beer guys use for their barley, etc.

    FC

  • Hammer mill to coarse flour. The husk stays more intact than the grain.

    Roller mill for oats is frustrating - it takes 2 or 3 passes to crush.

    It just wants to flatten out.

  • I use rolled oats but for my corn i had to buy a big industrial roller mill. 3hp. It goes through bags of corn like shit through a goose though. The 50% oats sounds like an interesting whiskey. I wpuld prefer to throw in a kilo or teo of quinoa and a kilo of rye. Nice flavor. If anyone is interested in trying qionoa on a 200l wash. I have been cooking it on the side. Ie boil 1kg quinoa in 5 l water for 60 mins then turn off the heat. It will turn into a blaoted sticky muck in 30 mins more. Then throw it in your wash and stir it in.

  • I have neighboring breweries mash, lauter, sparge, sometimes do a 5 minute boil, whirlpool, chill and transfer to sanitized totes for me to trailer to the distillery and ferment... When I switch from malted to unmalted grain, that will change, and I will do it in a mash cooker, but right now, the symbiotic relationship is great...

    If a brewery has fermenters full, their brew system is idle and labor might be cheaper... get a brewery that can do 4-5x your still size in a single batch for multiple runs to save on labor costs.... If a brewery has a gain silo, you could save a lot over a place humping bags or supersacks...

  • @FloridaCracker said: ...Works awesome but found that it is a LOT faster if I heat the initial water to about 150F in my still then pump it over to the tun. Add the first enzyme then off to the races...

    Try using a solar water heater for heating your mash water (a Sunshine State special). Pretty easy to rig one up.

    I'm more like I am now than I was before.

  • Coils of black Polly pipe?

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • We fill with hot water, it's faster for us too.

    Our water filter can only do 10gpm, so it takes a good while to fill. Might as well heat the water.

  • The 3 elements in my still can heat water VERY fast but I am wondering if adding this much goop producing grain to hot water may not be a good idea. I've always added the high temp enzyme to hot water right before the grain but I gotta admit I'm skeered of this grain bill.

    Maybe I should start with cold water? The last thing I want is a kettle full of thick gruel.

    FC

  • edited April 19

    If you are using grain that would benefit from a glucanase rest, or using beta-glucanase, then start lower, this would be unmalted wheat, rye, oats, even malted rye, etc. 115-120 - for 15-20 minutes.

    The other issue with going in really hot - forming dough balls. Grain mixes very easily in cold water, it clumps like crazy the hotter the water gets.

  • direct injection steam with an eductor for heating? @FloridaCracker - what if you pumped the steam outlet on the kettle to a hose and an eductor and stuck it in the mash?

    1/4",3/8",1/2",3/4",1",1.5" Stainless Steel venturi eductor nozzle,tank eductor water nozzle @ AliExpress

    the $7.45 1/4" one can handle 10kw without going over 15psi

    if you come visit, I can show you...

  • @CothermanDistilling said: direct injection steam with an eductor for heating? FloridaCracker - what if you pumped the steam outlet on the kettle to a hose and an eductor and stuck it in the mash?

    1/4",3/8",1/2",3/4",1",1.5" Stainless Steel venturi eductor nozzle,tank eductor water nozzle @ AliExpress

    the $7.45 1/4" one can handle 10kw without going over 15psi

    if you come visit, I can show you...

    Interesting! Gonna start this one cold and then ramp up the heat.

    FC

  • @grim said: If you are using grain that would benefit from a glucanase rest, or using beta-glucanase, then start lower, this would be unmalted wheat, rye, oats, even malted rye, etc. 115-120 - for 15-20 minutes.

    The other issue with going in really hot - forming dough balls. Grain mixes very easily in cold water, it clumps like crazy the hotter the water gets.

    So would you recommend I do the mash as follows?:

    1. Add high temp alpha-amylase to cold water then add grain
    2. Take up to 190F and hold for one hour
    3. Reduce to 150F add gluco-amylase and hold for 90 minutes
    4. Reduce to 115-120 for 15-20 minutes
    5. Cool to yeast pitching temp

    BTW, I use Pint's enzymes if that matters.

    FC

  • edited April 19

    Step 4 - that won't work unless you add beta glucanase enzyme - as any BG enzyme that might have existed in the grain would have been denatured by 190f, that's why it's usually done by dropping grain cool, and warming up to 115-120f.

  • I’ll take this opportunity to ask about other sources of enzymes. Maybe even dry ones.

  • @grim said: Step 4 - that won't work unless you add beta glucanase enzyme - as any BG enzyme that might have existed in the grain would have been denatured by 190f, that's why it's usually done by dropping grain cool, and warming up to 115-120f.

    @grim, do you have a source for the beta glucanase? After my enzyme rest at 148F the iodine test was an orangish (I'm colorblind) color and I am thinking dextrine?

    I'll definitely get some of that enzyme for the next mash but I couldn't be happier with the way this one turned out. No glue and had a nice thick DRY cap this morning. The OG was 1.05 which I was pretty happy with at 2 lbs per gallon of water. Gonna get some more bags of this grain and work on filling up a 15g once used for Rye barrel that I got from Corsair.

    FC

  • @CothermanDistilling said: I use Visco-Buster from White Labs (PDF).

    Bummer. This is the message I get from them:

    "We apologize, but the item you tried to order is not available to Individual customers"

    Got some you'd sell to me?

    FC

  • I will give you some.... come on over...

  • Hey FC. Sherman has some beta glucanase listed on his enzyme website.

  • @CothermanDistilling said: I will give you some.... come on over...

    Thanks, I have GOT to get over there!

    @Fiji_Spirits said: Hey FC. Sherman has some beta glucanase listed on his enzyme website.

    I don't know how the hell I missed that, I just ordered the other 2 from him last week....

    FC

  • Hey does anyone know what the dosing rate is for beta glucanase for something like an a bourbon with 20% rye? The beta glucanase has the dosing rate for wine, which is 3 to 5 grams per hectolitre.

  • per the PDF I attached above:

    VISCO-BUSTER dosage usually required is 100 grams per ton of malt or raw material making up the mash bill

  • @cothermandistilling. Thanks very much mate and also I love your videos. Really great work.

  • Update to the first 50/50 wheat, oats; Stripping run went well and the low wines smell really good. After 2 more, I'll do the spirit run and report back.

    FC

  • I just did a 90% triticale 10% barley that I really like. I also do a 51,34,15 White corn, triticale, barley for my bourbon. Good stuff.

  • edited May 2

    There is something totally different about whole oat distillate.

    There is something "oily" about the distillate that doesn't happen with any of the other grains. While "oil" doesn't typically distill over - there's got to be some sort of azeotrope going on that's carrying something different over. There is absolutely completely different mouthfeel with whole oat, with the husk, than any other grain.

    Absolutely a major mouthfeel modifier in my book. If you are looking for a more heavy, thick, syrupy mouthfeel, oat delivers.

    @FloridaCracker - Did you use whole oats? What do you think?

  • @grim said: There is something totally different about whole oat distillate.

    There is something "oily" about the distillate that doesn't happen with any of the other grains. While "oil" doesn't typically distill over - there's got to be some sort of azeotrope going on that's carrying something different over. There is absolutely completely different mouthfeel with whole oat, with the husk, than any other grain.

    Absolutely a major mouthfeel modifier in my book. If you are looking for a more heavy, thick, syrupy mouthfeel, oat delivers.

    FloridaCracker - Did you use whole oats? What do you think?

    Yes, whole oat. 50/50 oat, wheat.

    I can only comment on the stripping run so far but it smelled awesome. After 2 more mashs I'll do a stripping run and then in the barrel. Before it goes into the barrel I will give a report on how it turned out.

    FC

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