Sizing a Pump

What sort of pump is required to move product through a 10" cartridge filter unit? Have a peristaltic pump that does not do the job. Any advice appreciated. Thanks.

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Comments

  • edited December 2017

    Filtered 15 gallons of Rye though a 10” .22 micron with my Cole Parmer peristaltic a few hours ago. One pass, no additional filters.

    I filter pretty slow, about 45 minutes.

    What pump head and tubing size. Are you not generating pressure?

  • 3/8 tubing will have to check on the head. It is creating pressure bogging down the pump but not passing through the filter.

  • What porosity filter are you using? Is it a new filter? What is the maximum head rating for your pump?

    “Do I have to explain everything? Can’t you just be amazed and move on?”

  • It is a graduated filter from 20 to .2 micron filter. It is a new filter. Will have to look up max head.

  • edited December 2017

    Multi-grade filters like that work well. They catch the big bits before they plug up the fine filter pores. Another thing might be a closed valve, or a check valve installed backwards, or a kink, or a gob of shit plugging up the flow path.

    “Do I have to explain everything? Can’t you just be amazed and move on?”

  • Was trying the unit for the first time. Used clear water, no trash, no kinks, no check valve, and a short path. Without the filter in the housing things flowed freely.

  • @grim it is an Easy Load 2 pump head. At what speed and tubing size do you use?

  • edited December 2017

    I am running 1/4" ID tubing (1/8" wall), Masterflex easy-load pump head. Probably around 60rpm if I had to guess.

  • The motor I have had 2 outputs. 0-300 and 300-600 rpm. I tried at the highest output. Maybe my problem. Do you get output as soon as canister fills?

  • Does the canister have to meet a certain pressure before things are moved through the filter?

  • edited December 2017

    Use the slower output, and make sure the occlusion adjustment (knob at the top) is set to near maximum. This sets the pinch on the tube, tighter pinch, higher output pressure. It's adjustable because maximum occlusion reduces tubing life.

  • @Pa_bon said: Does the canister have to meet a certain pressure before things are moved through the filter?

    No. If your canister has an air bleed at the top, bleed the canister as it fills.

  • What tubing are you using, ID and wall size? What model easy-load II?

  • edited December 2017

    As the filter starts blocking you need to overcome this Delta P. Allow for at least 2.5 bar just to get through a blocking cartridge. Basically 0.1 bar in a new condition and 2.5 bar when it's time to change.

    As to flow rate for 0.2 microns and a 10" cartridge .... design size is between 4 - 6 lpm.

  • Thanks @richard

    @grim the head is a Geopump Easy-Load 2 High Performance

    The drive is a Geopump 2

    I am using 3/8 ID tubing with 1/8 wall

  • You should have no problem generating 20-30psi with that head.

  • Will try again at lower rpm.

  • Another question. Commercially, is final filtering done before or after proofing? Thanks.

  • Both ways, depending on the process and spirit.

    In smaller operations, you'll typically see final filtration prior to proofing and gauging. The reason for this is that you can purge your filtration system and pipelines with water without worrying about final proof, minimizing processing losses. In addition, it's common to flush/backwash your filtration with water after processing, especially if you run multiple spirits, through the same equipment. Some residual water may stay in your filters, sending a final proof batch through a wet filter, you'll undershoot your proof.

    In all cases, you need to make your final gauge after all processing steps (I'm talking TTB), because you are going to have losses in filtration.

    This doesn't mean that there aren't filters as part of bottling. You generally see a smaller, larger pore size filter as part of bottling, just as the last line of defense for any stray particulate introduced by the tanks, hoses, pumps, etc etc. Think stray dust, hair, etc etc.

    In operations involving carbon, you'll generally see final filtration prior to proofing, because even with a white spirit you are dealing with a large volume of carbon fines. This applies to brown spirits as well, dealing with barrel char.

    When we run through our 10" filters, we will typically run about a gallon or two of water to chase the spirit through. This doesn't impact the overall proof gallons, and it's not enough to undershoot the proof. It's nice because when you are dealing with 10-30 gallon volumes, losing a half gallon of product to the filtration line is very very wasteful.

    You can purge your filtration with air/gas as well, you don't necessarily need to use water. However, it's generally much easier to dump some water in the source tank to chase.

  • edited December 2017

    What was the outcome at a lower RPM?

    Filtered again yesterday. For giggles, tried to use a little centrifugal pump I have. Worked, but poorly. The little cole parmer is like the pump that could.

    I think centrifugals in this capacity have a big downside in that they generate quite a bit of cavitation and really beat the hell out of the spirit in the pump head when the flow rate is significantly lower than the open pump flow rates. The peristaltics seem much more gentle to the spirit, the don't necessarily generate the kind of froth/oxygenation you would see from an oversized centrifugal.

    I have a bigger AODD Yamada DP-20f all-ptfe pump along with pulsation damper I use to move larger volumes of high-proof.

    But, honestly, it's a pain because it needs the compressor, it uses 3/4" hoses. If I want to pump 100 gallons of something it's great, if I want to filter 10 gallons of something, I feel it's overkill.

  • @Pa_bon said: Thanks richard

    grim the head is a Geopump Easy-Load 2 High Performance

    The drive is a Geopump 2

    I am using 3/8 ID tubing with 1/8 wall

    I have a Geotech Geopump for sampling monitor wells and anchialine pools. It never occurred to me to use it for filtering spirits.

    “Do I have to explain everything? Can’t you just be amazed and move on?”

  • Haven't had a chance to try again with work. Will try next week.

  • edited December 2017

    Believe I found the problem. Sent me the wrong cartridge. Was trying to push liquid through a gas and air filter. Waiting on proper filter. Hope this will solve my issue. Was getting frustrated as I thought there was no reason for this not to work. It's not friggin rocket science. Looked up the numbers on filter as I did not check prior to use and it's an air and gas filter. Damn the luck.

  • If it was a PTFE cartridge and used in air applications ... then it's Hydrophobic and will not let water pass. Hydrophilic allows water to pass.

  • edited December 2017

    Ah good to hear. St. Pats wine is a good source for filters in small quantities, they have decent pricing.

  • Ordered from Pall. Thirty something bucks each and they sell individually.

  • Ah thats not bad, I'll need to set up an account.

  • edited December 2017

    $31.87 plus shipping to be exact. Won't get it for a couple of weeks. Will have to wait until then to try it again.

  • edited December 2017

    Anybody share the filter bodies they are using and the precise filters (link)?

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