All about Lower Explosive Limit (LEL) and Upper Explosive Limit (UEL)

jbierling

Manual appears to be here (PDF).

... Which mentions things like calibration dates and sensor life. Any idea of the status of these units?

CothermanDistilling

Just thought I would let you all know that there is now more information in this thread than there ever was on the ADI Forum regarding sensors...I will likely try to get a couple of these, it would be nice to have people on this forum standardize on the used sensor model we get, I am fine with this model being that standard

grim

Let me know if you want one, couple others have asked me. I'm not making any money on this, it was just too good a deal to pass up.

For $180 a piece, I'll roll the dice. Even adding in the cost of a new catalytic, it's like 75% less expensive than something new.

I just asked the guy to hold off listing them all on eBay, because once someone realizes it, they'll all be gone.

jbierling

@grim I'll take at least one.

CothermanDistilling

PM'd you, I will take 1 or 2, possibly 3 if no one else wants them.

grim

I think they are all gone at this point. I ended up only with 1, oh well!

grim

Electricians finished up yesterday, here's a shot of the Class I Div 1 explosion proof agitator motor and wiring on the still. Per code we need to have a service switch in sight of the motor - so that's the point of the 3 pole switch, not for on/off. You can also see the explosion proof flex from the motor to the box. Above the box is the sealing fitting - that's packed with sealant to prevent vapors from using the conduit as a pathway. All the galvanized conduit is threaded and requires explosion proof unions and other fittings.

TheMechWarrior

Holy shit, regulations is AU are nothing like this

grim

That's about $600 worth of kit right there in the photo, not including the motor, agitator, and labor. Add in the rest of the EP wiring for the agitator, labor, fittings, motor, it's probably $2k.

punkin

@TheMechWarrior said: Holy shit, regulations is AU are nothing like this

Will be soon from what i understand. Devil's Distillery that bought an 8" SD unit in Tasmania rang me the other day, they are being used as guinea pigs by the ATO and other bodies for complex new regulations. They said they are being given a fairly hard time.

TheMechWarrior

@punkin said: Will be soon from what i understand. Devil's Distillery that bought an 8" SD unit in Tasmania rang me the other day, they are being used as guinea pigs by the ATO and other bodies for complex new regulations. They said they are being given a fairly hard time.

Ah, crap timing! Oh well, good thing I'm already in the explosive solvent biz and know what to expect. More paperwork, more expense, more time and more complexity.

I haven't met Devil's Distillery yet but I do look forward to seeing an 8" SD in Tasmania.

punkin

They are installing it atm, i'll pass on some contact details via email. 380l boiler with a Dash 2.

TheMechWarrior

For those of us in AUS/NZ the appropriate standards can be found here:

Australian Dangerous Goods Code: ADG7 with SOL Links (PDF)

• AS/NZS 2430.3.3, Classification of hazardous areas - Examples of area classification - Flammable liquids
• AS/NZS 60079, Electrical apparatus for explosive gas atmospheres (series)
• AS/NZS 60079.10.1:2009, Explosive atmospheres - Classification of areas - Explosive gas atmospheres (IEC 60079-10-1, Ed.1.0(2008) MOD)
• AS/NZS 60079.11, Explosive atmospheres - Equipment protection by intrinsic safety 'i'

Also: IECEx
ATEX certification is of little use here, we need IECEx certification for all electricals.

Cheers,

Mech.

grim

If you guys are interested, I got my hands on couple more units. These are brand new Polytron 2 XP Ex with catalytic sensors. These appear to be spares that were never used.

You guys outside of the US might be even more interested, these carry the ATEX/CSA labels and not the UL. Although side by side with the UL units, they appear to be identical aside from the labels. Explosion proof.

These are the non-relay units with 4-20ma, RS485 serial, and Hart output - perfect if you are looking to integrate with scada, plc, controller, or standalone monitoring. You could even run the 4-20ma into a small DIN mount process controller or a set point relay if you need simple relay output to shut down equipment or have a remote readout.

I'd like to get $250usd + ship. These list for $400-500 used on eBay and retailed for closer to $1800usd.

jbierling

Will they work out of the box to detect and display ethanol concentrations? If so I'll take one.

grim

Just a quick shot of the explosion proof temperature sensors (RTDs) before we get them installed on the still today.

2 1.5" TC for the PC and RC

1 27" long sensor for the wash temperature (using one of the top 2" TC's on the boiler)

1 2" with a 4" adapter for the vapor temp

Still waiting on one more Rosemount housing for the distillate temp.

Smaug

How long before you start makin?

grim

3 seconds after the state gets off their ass

Smaug

God speed. Feds just fired 4...........

Smaug

Poor devils in the que are likely in no man's land

Littlechicago

Lol , I almost got a tattoo that said TBD at one point!

grim

That's the frustrating part, we absolutely flew through Federal in no time at all.

CothermanDistilling

Got mine semi-installed with the cp-60 control panel...

And tested it with the jar of heads underneath it for 10 sec...

CothermanDistilling

patience pays off, just scored 2 more Dragers like the above with the 6809755 sensor for $150 each on eBay, only took 4-5 times at putting in best offers before the items expired for them to get annoyed at me and agree to sell them...

Smaug

hag·gle

ˈhaɡəl/

verb

1.

dispute or bargain persistently, especially over the cost of something.

"the two sides are haggling over television rights"

synonyms: barter, bargain, negotiate, dicker, quibble, wrangle;

CothermanDistilling

OK, time to kick this dead horse again... I have all three drager sensors hooked up, about 10 feet from the still, high, medium, and low for testing final mounting position, and I have spilled a cup or more of high proof on the floor and had the place have a pretty good stink, and only could get the units to register 2%LEL, which means it needs to be 50 times stronger to go boom.... I feel much safer with these installed.... I can make them go to 5 by taking a finger wet with alcohol and touching the bottom stainless lip (not the sensor hole, but next to it) and I held a snifter under it for 20 seconds or so, and it went to 20%LEL and the most obnoxious alarm came out of that control panel.... can't wait to show the fire marshal that ;-)

I feel safe.....

jbierling

I have one installed and it makes me feel better to have a backup for my eyes and nose detecting any issues. Unfortunately the battery backup that retains the settings seems dead in mine. The main problem is that I unless I recalibrate it after every time it loses power the LEL reading seems to default to around -12.

Anyone try replacing the battery? I did a little disassembling and the battery was pretty tight in its clip so I didn't want to break anything.

CothermanDistilling

take it to a watch shop, LOL.... they will get a giggle out of it and are not likely to break anything... I need to calibrate one of mine, it says -3... but not doing that until I get them wired into final position in case that changes something...

punkin

Went to an unamed distillery a few weeks ago. The smell when i walked in was as if they had used low wines to mop the floor. Big shed with 25 foot to the roof i guess. When i mentioned the smell they said they couldn't smell it after 5 mins.

|While talking to the distiller the still was flooding slightly and spewing into the parrot and splashing everywhere every now and then on a stripping run. He was talking about wishing they could go gas fired again and i pointed it out the spillage that was a couple feet from the boiler. He got a bit cranky and started mentioning all the sensors they have and that they'd have to flood the place with ethanol to be able to trip them.
It was pretty surreal.

CothermanDistilling

good to know, @punkin - I am not sure I would go as far as he would (and def not with a continuous open flame) , but I am far less concerned about a little splashin' on the floor than I used to be... (and my epoxy floor does not soak it in like the bare concrete did, making a wick)