The Big Gin Thread

Unsensibel

Congrats!

DonMateo

Yes Congrats. Nice to see someone getting into production.

crozdog

@Clickeral massive congratulations its a big but rewarding step.

Let me know if you need help sourcing botanicals.

richard

I have recently in a recipe included some quite different botanicals namely Chinese dried tangerine (many years dried, .. Ching Pi) and Longjin green tea. This was after my distilling partner and I came up with a really great distilled Gin on a past international distilling course.

Current problem now back home is that I am not able to replicate this great tasting gin and it has some harsh tastes. My thoughts are botanicals and these two in particular. Ratios and method are identical unfortunately not so with the source of botanical supply.

Thoughts from others whom may have used similar botanicals ??

Clickeral

@richard said: I have recently in a recipe included some quite different botanicals namely Chinese dried tangerine (many years dried, .. Ching Pi) and Longjin green tea. This was after my distilling partner and I came up with a really great distilled Gin on a past international distilling course.

Current problem now back home is that I am not able to replicate this great tasting gin and it has some harsh tastes. My thoughts are botanicals and these two in particular. Ratios and method are identical unfortunately not so with the source of botanical supply.

Thoughts from others whom may have used similar botanicals ??

How fresh is the gin? Have you let it sit ?

richard

2 batches are +5 weeks. latest batch is 1 day. I am aware that it needs to stand, but you can still do a perception of the taste

richard

I tried ROSEHIP for the for the first time during the last few days and was very pleasantly surprised as to how it changed the taste and mouthfeel of the gin.

The question is as to a recommended ratio use in g/L .... or 1/10 or 1/100 or whatever ...... Has anyone used ROSEHIP and what ratio do they use it at.

grim

My mom swore by rosehip tea.

Masceration or distilled? Rosehip is chock full of carotenoids and vitamins.

richard

@grim said: My mom swore by rosehip tea.

Masceration or distilled? Rosehip is chock full of carotenoids and vitamins.

I envisaged distillation ... but open to suggestions

richard

A worthwhile video to watch with regard to single and multi shot gin recipes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEjtQ34Bkxk

SingleMaltYinzer

Rosehips rock. Flavor is better than rose petals alone. There's tons of other chemicals that give the gin better flavor and mouthfeel. We macerate & then remove it before the run. Ratio of about 10th the weight of juniper. It's strong so keep it a small amount.

richard

@SingleMaltYinzer said: Rosehips rock. Flavor is better than rose petals alone. There's tons of other chemicals that give the gin better flavor and mouthfeel. We macerate & then remove it before the run. Ratio of about 10th the weight of juniper. It's strong so keep it a small amount.

Thanks

DonMateo

Great video. I prefer vapor infusion per the Odin method.

crozdog

thanks for sharing a great vid @richard

laconnings

Can I ask you gents, when you give grams per liter on the recipes do you mean grams per liter of alcohol or per liter of 30% abv?

DonMateo

Its grams per litre of final product. So if for example your going to make 100l of final gin using Juniper at 20grams per litre will mean will use 2000grams of juniper and then all the other botanicals calculate off the juniper.

laconnings

Thanks @DonMateo, doesn’t that make it more difficult when you include the cuts?

DonMateo

Well look each distiller has a technique that they like to use. I use a method that Odin ( a legend in the gin world). And that is basically this. Its pure vapor infusion. I put in a charge of 24% abv in the still with all of the botanicals in the basket. You run it at full power from start to finish. The initial cut is very slight and its only to take out the heavy oils from the Juniper and then you run it down to about 10%. What you get at the end of the day is bottle strength gin at 40%. Its not masceration and so I cant talk to that. I tried masceration a couple of times and didnt like it so much. Anyway thats the technique I use. With this method you get a lot nicer floral esters and flavors at the end of the run. Masceration is a LOT more efficient like 3 times but thats another conversation, or comments on that are included in this gin thread.

richard

@laconnings The answer to your question is Yes and No. Sounds confusing and it is because everyone just about does it a different way.

As @DonMateo indicated, he does it based on finished product. I used to do it this way but it gets complicated because you have variables to consider. My current method is based on g/litre when diluted down to 30% in the boiler / still. Some go higher than 30% (not recommended) as ultimately the higher resultant ABV distilled product will lose flavour when diluted down to drinking strength.

For cuts (heads and tails), for me this is completely temperature driven for my specific altitude and atmospheric pressure conditions. Take volumetric samples during both heads and tails and most importantly noting the temperature of the column at when the sample was taken. Having decided on desired tasted flavour cut point and its temperature, you can in the future and with certainty get the same continued flavour taste profile for production runs.

As to power, again many different ways. I run at 100% up to the ethanol boiling point and then tap off down to 60% until I have complete uniform system temperature. I in this period have 100% reflux and there afterwards start take off. This also reduces smearing and allows for more accurate taste cut points. Towards the tail end of production, I start to raise power so as to get the heavier boiling point molecules through.

Again no straight answer as everyone has their own preferred answer or method.

laconnings

Thank you @richard and @DonMateo, both answers are extremely helpful, I have a small pot still so will give both ways a go over the next few days and have a play, definitely will try a drop of rose hip also so thanks for the heads up on that one, have you guys had a play with sea buckthorn yet with spirits? The berry flavors are amazing and love the citrus that gets carried over into gin from them.

DonMateo

@laconnings. I live in Argentina and @richard lives in South Africa. I dont know if I can get sea buckthorn here. Good luck with your recipe development. One more peice of advice get yourself a gin flavor wheel and use that to help create your flavors. Remember most gins work by having one or two strong flavors, apart from the base juniper and coriander, that are strong and elements from different flavor groups three or four for secondary flavors, and also tertiary flavors.

grim

Grams per liter finished product is by far the easiest way to communicate and translate recipes. Otherwise we would need to talk about oil/extract concentrations - and being able to measure that is significantly more complicated.

Cuts in finished gin runs tend to be very small in comparison - so the impact to grams/liters is minimal. Most are distilling gins from neutral, so there isn’t any corresponding spirit cuts being made - which would make it difficult to compare.

Probably the biggest impact when talking this language is mascerated vs. vapor extracted.

laconnings

Thanks again gents, really appreciated

DonMateo

Hey @laconnings one final comment too is that if you want to read lots of things about gin search on Odin. There is a Dutch guy who is a legend in the Gin community and he has lots of articles online and on you tube. One of the pieces of advice that stuck with me was dont put more than say 12 to 15 components in your gin. Beyond that your tongue cant discern the differences. Anyway search on Odin and there is a huge volume of posts documents and videos.

laconnings

Thanks @DonMateo, I’ve watched many a vid from himself over the last few years, great advice. I’m at 11 botanicals right now, gin macerating at the moment ready to be run tomorrow so here’s hoping, annoyingly enough I made an absolute beaut of a gin about 8 batches ago, amazing citrus sherbet flavors and no louching, lesson to myself to write everything down as i have been unable to reproduce the gin again.

DonMateo

yes mate. I havent written down a lot of things in making booze and I kick myself for it now. My best whiskey was a heavy smoke thats just amazing and I havent been able to reproduce it. Must keep trying.

richard

This is what happens if you get lazy and don't clean up after a gin run

richard

Something went wrong here. Picture now inserted

grim

Yeah - mix of a lot of things I think. Fats, molds, bacterial pellicle. Suspect it actually smells pretty nice, though I wouldn’t dare taste it (maybe I would).

Smaug

eyewood