The Big Gin Thread

grim

Yeah the flavor and aroma are Cascarilla (Croton Elutheria). It's the primary constituent in Campari and a number of other Amaros and Vermouths. It's also the reason the copycat recipes don't quite work.

The voodoo stuff is really just eggshell and not the actual herb anymore.

GD50

Makes sense. I really like Amaro Montenegro. Such a complex and lovely bitter flavour. I also have a collection of Valdespino and Lustau Oloroso sherries plus the good old Noilly Prat vermouth. There is always a strange component in those that you are making me reconsider. That reminds me I had a great sauce recipe with Noilly Prat and grapes with cream etc that was excellent with fish. Might go there again.

Kapea

S

grim

So do I pony up a hundred and fifty bucks for a pound?

geoff400

My bad I answered the wrong question

richard

The guys at Drinktec had an interesting Gin on their stand from Canada. Quite different tasting.

DonMateo

Just a quick post. I did a gin run yesterday and put some dried cascade hops ( they werent fresh) on a basic gin, which was light on the juniper and coriander, and it came out really well. I only added about 4 grams of hops on a 260gram charge to a GB4. Anyway the result was spectacular.

geoff400

Thanks for the feedback DonMateo, I have been thinking about trying hops, did you get any grapefruit notes coming through?

grim

Our IPA cask Bourbon was big grapefruit on the finish. The IPA was heavy on Citra.

I beg of you, a light touch is significantly better than a heavy hand here. Have many others taste before you go all in, you may be biased.

Tasted another foul hop whiskey this week. Completely unbalanced, awful, nobody in their right mind would ever buy a second bottle. On a positive note, the hop completely obliterates noticing that the whiskey is like 4 months old.

geoff400

My perception has been that cascade is a bit lighter on citrus notes than citra.

I have never made whisk(e)y however I made a gin a few weeks back with waaaaaaaaaaaay too much fresh pink grapefruit. It was virtually undrinkable coming off the still. I left it open to the air for a couple of days before bottling and just 2 weeks later it was good to drink.

Perhaps gin is a bit more forgiving, that said I am still in experimenting stage so it may be a lot more luck than judgement.

DonMateo

@geoff400. Well I was very light on the hops, No grapeful persee but a touch of the hoppy citrus, a little bit of the hop bitter to offset the juniper and Corinander. I was getting a funny honey kind of blend of flavours. It was very nice. But as @Grim says it was very light. Like maybe max 4 grams ( it was 3 metric pinches of dried leaves) So not a lot.

grim

There are phenethyl esters and terpenes in common - hops and honey.

DonMateo

Thanks @grim. So it wasnt my mind playing tricks on me. Anyway its nice to be able to contribute something every now and again.

geoff400

Definitely seems worth a try using some hops

DonMateo

Ladies and Gents, I just got a bottle of a gin while passing through London called Gin Mare, that had rosemary, basil and Thyme in it. It was really nice. Not heavy on the Juniper and just some hints of the herbs. I ran a what I thought would be be a copy and it came out really close. The ingredients were Juniper, Coriander, Canela, rosemary basil oregano, thyme, with some Goji berries for a touch of fruit and chamomille for a touch of floral flavours. Very close to the Gin Mare straight out the condensor. On the Basil Oregano thyme and rosemary I only used about 2 grams of each for a 50 l run. The rosemary is the key though as it is fragant and sweet and balances the Juniper well. I only used 12 grams per litre juniper ( per litre of final product) and that seems to me to be the sweet spot for more subtle gins. But I have only done 4 through my fantastic SD gin basket.

GD50

@DonMateo Have you put hungry boards on your GB4 or are you using in std format ? When you say 2 grams of each i assume you mean total in GB4 was 2 grams. The 12 grams - per litre of final product is confusing me as i guess you are using something like 120 gms in GB4. Sorry for being slow here.

I am currently using 460 gms of mix in basket and probably 100 gms in column riser for 50 l @ around 20%

Great to see you are on the road.

I might be wrong but was it you who said you used to come to the Nullarbor and hang your feet over the cliffs ? I am back here working.

DonMateo

@GD50 Ok I was using 12 grams per litre which means with a standard GB4 with a 50l water and 8 litre neutral charge I had about 180grams of Juniper. The other botanicals were Coriander at 50 grams total, Goji berries at 30 grams total, 4 grams oregano, 4 grams rosemary, 2 grams thyme and 2 grams basil. I havnt changed my standard configuration on my GB4 which means with a 50 litre water and 8 or 9 litre neutral charge it will produce 15 to 18 litres of 40 % gin straight out of the spout.

Thanks for the encouragement mate. I havent been to the nullabor but I have been to lake Ayre and Roxy downs. I might be living in South America but I am as true blue and dinky di as they come. I have ancestors who fought in the Boer war, the first world war and the second world war as well. 3 of my great uncles are buried at the Menin gate in Ypres and died in the battle of Villeuer Bretaneuex. My grandfather was at Tobruk and Buna Sananda, and on his day 900 men went into battle and 89 walked out. I am lucky to be here. At his local RSL for 50 years he was the guy the diggers respected the most to put the slouch hat on the coffins of his mates, until it was his turn.

But that is another topic apart from making great Gin. So my contribution that I would like to this thread is that around 12 grams per litre final product of juniper gives a product that doesnt over power the other botanicals. And rosemary has some very interesting characteristics when combined with juniper and coriander and other more herbal botanicals provdies sweetness and herbalness ( if that makes sense).

As to going to the nullabor and putting my feet over the cliffs. I dream of that day. And I dream of the day when I can bring my kids, who are Aussies but dont know much about Oz,To my sunburnt country. When I was 25 I worked at Roxy downs on a construction project and they would bring in seafood from the bight. Maybe one day when I get there with my kids @GD50 we can raise a glass together and have some streaky bay oysters and some seafood from the bight and it will all be good mate.

This post wont mean a lot to non australians except for the dosage for a herbal type of Gin. Rosemary is a very nice counterbalance to the standard Juniper and Corander mix. I have just come back from a social event where I brought a couple of bottles of my gin Mediteraneo and it evaporated and everyone were licking their lips wondering what was the great flavor combination. But I didnt make a buck. It was probably worth it for product development.

richard

Your Rosemary and Juniper are very similar to my amounts used.

I would love to know whom does and does not, prior macerate Juniper in a 60% ABV bath for 8 hours before final dilution and distilling. Up to now, all of our botanicals are in the gin basket. Pro's and negatives ?????

squeakyclean

Yes I always put the juniper in 60% ABV overnight, and coriander (if it's in the recipe) as well. In the morning dilute to 30% and the rest of the herbs in, no vapour infusion for me.

geoff400

@DonMateo massive respect to your relatives who gave everything they could so we could all be free over such a period of world wars.

Thanks very much for sharing your recipe feedback always a good read.

DonMateo

@geoff400 Thanks mate. I tried to join up for the Army reserve but I couldnt because I am asthmatic. But I tried. My next gin recipe attempt will be something earthy. I really want to try roiboos, which I know is South African but I know it has some very interesting flavours that would make a nice gin.

crozdog

@geoff400 said: DonMateo massive respect to your relatives who gave everything they could so we could all be free over such a period of world wars.

Thanks very much for sharing your recipe feedback always a good read.

+1 from me

DonMateo

@crozdog Thanks mate. Actually my mum did a lot of family research about 10 years ago and turned up lots of interesting people and things. Not the least being 4 of my forebears went ashore at Gallipoli on the second day. They all made it out of Gallipoli but three stayed in France. She also found a pirate, lots of pub owners, some hookers, all sorts of interesting people, some people who were married to two people at the same time.

One of my ancestors had a pub in toowoomba at the turn if the century, and the local cops couldnt find where he was making his moonshine. He was originally a builder and he built a two story house with a big brick fireplace and chimney and into the chimney he built a still. At the bottom there was a large copper vessel with a cooling coil going up the chimney and the exit pipe was grouted into the outside with a small tap at the base of the chimney. on the outside hidden by a hollowed out brick. By all accounts this guy was an A grade asshole but very creative. I think this thread has been hijacked. Sorry guys. The next post will be about Gin.

Kapea

Big Gin... history!

GD50

@DonMateo From my StillDragon limited knowledge of you - you have all the genetic inheritances. Rascal villian adventurer character and bloody nice fellow who likes to give and help.

DonMateo

@GD50. Thanks mate. The next post will be about Gin.

grim

Is it just me, or are many commercial gins slightly sweetened (new style citrus forwards). We're finalizing our gin recipe and doing lots of side-by-side market comparisons.

On a whim, I added 1g/l of sugar to a final gin sample and compared again, very very interesting.

I'm not going to name names, but seems highly likely that many fancy gins are around 0.5-1.0g/l of sugar in the final product.

1.0-1.5g/l is the lower bound of the threshold of perception. It's not obvious unless you are doing side by side comparisons and really paying attention. It is slightly obvious in the mouthfeel. No, it's not licorice. Very interesting taking the slight edge of bitterness off the citrus.

XEIP

Hi @grim, I personally am far from sweetening, using extracts and dyes,(not for flavor, but for romance). But for example European regulations for london dry gin only contemplate the use of sweeteners in a maximum proportion of 0.1 gr per liter of final product. Another thing is that many of the industrial brands "forget" the regulations ...

DonMateo

I just backed off on the Citrus in my latest gin. But I love your work. I wonder if you use brown sugar whether that would give just a slightly softer taste without effecting the color.

grim

What are the EU regulations for distilled gin, not london dry?

Looked it up, no restrictions.

0.1g/l of invert sugar would be enough to be material in my book, it would make an impact.