So part of what I understand about gin is that different flavors come off at different times in a batch system, i assume this is because of increasing temps and decreasing proof throughout the run. Do you think gin made on a system like this would be kinda monochromatic for lack of a better word? And how would you make sure you're getting the full range of flavors from you botanicals at a fixed temp? Or am i wrong in thinking this?
I tried this once using 100% neutral, on accident. Had the water valve off, so I was pumping only neutral. Flavor profile was very different. I let it run through for a while for the hell of it. Then, not sure why, I decided to just try running water alone, and just running steam through.
The end result was very similar to the normal run. Each individual component was not. The steam distilled botanicals ran white like milk. But as soon as the distillate hit the very-high-proof first runnings, it went clear again.
Toyed around a few times after that, but when I ran a vapor proof that was identical to my batch distilled product proof (before dilution), the end result was identical.
The best I could posit was, the same amount of alcohol vapor and water vapor is passing through the botanicals. The only difference is that they are constant through the run, and not starting high/ending low/vice-versa.
Assuming you are getting full extraction of your botanicals, why would the end result differ? it all comes down to grams/liter of extract and oils per finished bottle. Keep those ratios identical, it won't matter.
You could get very fancy with this setup, and vary the ratio of water/ethanol through the run, in a manner similar to a step mash in brewing. (5 minutes at 190 proof, 5 minutes at 150 proof, 17 minutes at 130 proof, 8 minutes at 110 proof, etc, etc). You could actually get better consistency doing this than you ever could with a batch still.
Flavor does change through the distillation even when running constant proof, it's not quite the same as batch distillation, but the flavor profiles do follow a similar order. Lighter citrus always comes off first, and falls off, etc.
It's not entirely the same though, but I'm not sure if that's because of the dramatic proof differences. The first fraction of strong citrus for example, is coming off at very different proofs & concentrations, so you can't really compare.
OK so this continous gin still idea is kinda brilliant. It seems almost too good to be true... is there any catch? I mean, it's only vapor distilled (no maceration), so I assume you need a higher g/l ratio?
What if you were to do a thumper of sorts with an overflow below the vapor basket with all your masserated botanicals? This would be a highly concentrated maceration. You don't need the thumper for proof but as a way to get some of the more full flavors you don't get with vapor basket.
Could work, all depends on how much loss you are OK with. Though thumping straight steam through macerated botanicals would probably knock your socks off in terms of flavor and oil content, with a lot less loss/waste.
Comments
Yeah, pretty much. I didn't run the RO through the condenser, but that's a good idea. You probably need a secondary product condenser as backup.
Awesome thanks
So part of what I understand about gin is that different flavors come off at different times in a batch system, i assume this is because of increasing temps and decreasing proof throughout the run. Do you think gin made on a system like this would be kinda monochromatic for lack of a better word? And how would you make sure you're getting the full range of flavors from you botanicals at a fixed temp? Or am i wrong in thinking this?
Not at all wrong.
I tried this once using 100% neutral, on accident. Had the water valve off, so I was pumping only neutral. Flavor profile was very different. I let it run through for a while for the hell of it. Then, not sure why, I decided to just try running water alone, and just running steam through.
The end result was very similar to the normal run. Each individual component was not. The steam distilled botanicals ran white like milk. But as soon as the distillate hit the very-high-proof first runnings, it went clear again.
Toyed around a few times after that, but when I ran a vapor proof that was identical to my batch distilled product proof (before dilution), the end result was identical.
The best I could posit was, the same amount of alcohol vapor and water vapor is passing through the botanicals. The only difference is that they are constant through the run, and not starting high/ending low/vice-versa.
Assuming you are getting full extraction of your botanicals, why would the end result differ? it all comes down to grams/liter of extract and oils per finished bottle. Keep those ratios identical, it won't matter.
You could get very fancy with this setup, and vary the ratio of water/ethanol through the run, in a manner similar to a step mash in brewing. (5 minutes at 190 proof, 5 minutes at 150 proof, 17 minutes at 130 proof, 8 minutes at 110 proof, etc, etc). You could actually get better consistency doing this than you ever could with a batch still.
Flavor does change through the distillation even when running constant proof, it's not quite the same as batch distillation, but the flavor profiles do follow a similar order. Lighter citrus always comes off first, and falls off, etc.
It's not entirely the same though, but I'm not sure if that's because of the dramatic proof differences. The first fraction of strong citrus for example, is coming off at very different proofs & concentrations, so you can't really compare.
That's really interesting!
OK so this continous gin still idea is kinda brilliant. It seems almost too good to be true... is there any catch? I mean, it's only vapor distilled (no maceration), so I assume you need a higher g/l ratio?
Growing on the previous picture...
What if you were to do a thumper of sorts with an overflow below the vapor basket with all your masserated botanicals? This would be a highly concentrated maceration. You don't need the thumper for proof but as a way to get some of the more full flavors you don't get with vapor basket.
Could work, all depends on how much loss you are OK with. Though thumping straight steam through macerated botanicals would probably knock your socks off in terms of flavor and oil content, with a lot less loss/waste.
Jesus, 14 years ago…
Violentblue's Steamed Gin @ HD
Thanks @grim lots to think about
We were all doing so much experimentation at that stage. most of us didn't have the science of it like you guys, a lot was 'what if'.
Everything from equipment, to methods, to recipes.
@Smaug's thumper pumper was out there too.....
@olddog brought the bubble plate column to the hobby world not long before we all started StillDragon and doing all our product development.
Was a cool time to be part of the hobby.
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