Be part of our community & join our international next generation forum now!
A friend of dear old Dad got lucky and scored 700L (185 Gallons) of Shiraz concentrate, and gave me 70L (18.5 Gallons). Has anyone had experience with this stuff? It's like drinking Blackcurrant juice with a hint of pepper.
My thoughts are to:
I'd like to have a go at making Brandy as well as Port, but this will tie up 3x 60L (15.8 Gal) fermenters (2x fermenting/clearing and 1x as a transfer spare).
Any suggestions/advice?
Comments
NO experience with what you are dealing with here. You are a lucky dog and If that were my enemy I would call them a dear friend afterward. If it were mine I would shoot for 8% and only make one run and slow. Add no sugar. Brandy usually has more heads than grains or sugar so make your cuts in jars depending on size of boiler. Large boiler bigger jars smaller boiler smaller jars. Did I mention I am jealous? I am! I would say 1.1 is a little high (1.06 is just my opinion) and I would say .990-1 is a little dry for my taste only. I like some sweet but that's my taste not yours.
Thanks @applepie, your advice is appreciated. I'll fill a 100L barrel then distill the rest. This will be my first Brandy so your info is a good start for me. Jealous? I can understand as this concentrate normally sells for ~$20 per litre/quart
ec-1118 - yes, forget the Potassium Metabisulphite
Make port, start HIGH! i mean like 1.12 - 1.14 !
When fermented to 1.07 (nice and sweet) add the distilled brandy to stop the ferment. Age in one of the octaved for 1 year minimum
I want to try this with honey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty6eY9VUIgI
Buy more fermenters :-)
Sounds mighty fine Law. Will start the Brandy ferment off first, but my local HBS only had a red wine yeast, :-O so I'll use this for the Brandy must initially, and follow applepie's recommendations above. Time to place a yeast 'net order me thinks.
1:2 (concentrate to water) ratio gives me a Starting SG of 1.13.
Any idea on the wine to Brandy ratio for the barrel?
yep
VinoCalc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty6eY9VUIgI
Well, fortification me. I'll have to bookmark this page - Thanks Mr. Ohms ;)
Lucky man. I had to pay through the nose for my juice. Treated it the same as a sugar wash, 100L at a time, made it into Brandy on oak for 6 months - absolutely marvelous. Then made 30L port - going to make some more as I have been preferring it to whisky lately.
Lol, good suggestion Croz - one more won't break the bank (just the wrath of SWMBO, but I can deal with that ) #-o
Yeah, it's expensive, although this cube had been sitting around for 12 months and was going to be tipped down the drain! Can you believe it?????? There is a fair amount of white sediment in the bottom 2 inches of concentrate that resembles sherbet. I'll try and post some pics tomorrow. Not sure if it may affect my PH though.
Was your Brandy/Port recipe/cuts similar to what Applepie & Law of Ohms have suggested?
I wouldn't be using a champagne yeast if i was going to drink the wine. I also wouldn't be using sodium met, if there were any wild yeasts left alive in there it would have fermented already. I'd be looking at a real good red wine yeast, maybe ask an expert, ring Laurie at Enoltech. (you can ask him about anything you want to do with it ;) )
EnolTech
StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand
Thanks Punkin. I might take you up on that offer and give Laurie a call. I have been offered more concentrate if I stuff this round up, so I'm re-learning what I forgot 20 years ago :((
Tell him Garry from StillDragon recommended you to him. I got some of the CRU-05 for cider off him two years ago, he was talking about what a good yeast that was for the purpose (even though it's a red yeast) as it was an acid converter.
StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand
Thanks Garry, just got off the phone from Laurie. Man, does he know wine or what! I told him what I wanted to do, and his reply was "That's an interesting project". He also said that there is probably around 900g/L (32oz/0.26 Gal) of sugar, and it will require nutrients because of the absence of grape skins. It might actually make a pretty good dry "BBQ" wine a shelf life of up to 12 months. I'll also probably need to drop the PH down to 3-3.5.
He is going to send an email with all of the required info. I'm stoked :)
Shiraz Concentrate
shiraz....I've not made the wine, so don't know what yeast might be best. But, I've distilled some before and I can tell you it makes killer brandy oaked.
Sounds awesome Usge. Distilling Brandy will be another steep learning curve.
How did you run yours? Through a pot still only, and if so, how many times?
Cut just the same as I do Whisky - full reflux to concentrate heads, 1 liter into heads drum, run hearts till ~60% then cut to tails. Sometimes the tails were very tasty so in they went with the hearts.
It was bottled shiraz (about 14%). I single ran it through an alembic. Took a wide cut (just lopped off the far ends). Then oaked it up good. Gave some to a brandy snob..who gave it a thumbs up and asked for more.
Also, would add....save your feints! Add it to next run.
Let me know if you need some acid adjuster Philter. Laurie sold me 4 l of a fancy lactic blend for cider and i've used about 30ml. :O)
StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand
Thanks @Usge & @dellae. A few different options there, so I may try both yet :D
@Punkin, will do, thanks ^:)^
Dilute to 24.5-25 brix ferment coldish at 22-24c (you dont have skins and dont need a warm extractive fermentation. you will simply waste\blow off aromatics...) with red wine yeast. (yeast do make a difference!) rack once hydromter shows 1.000 , I prefer it to show minus -1.5 to -2 into a carboy filling it completly. Add Malolactic bacteria (buy thru morewine, enoferm alpha or beta works well and not too expenssive, around 15$). put in a warm place 20-24c to ferment. Check for mlf completion (use a testing kit or send to a winelab) after 6-8 weeks. once done, rack and add K-meta to 50ppm. at 3 months add another 30ppm kmeta. at 6 months rack and add another 30ppm. at 8-12 months rack again, add 50 ppm kmeta and bottle.
Hello and welcome @Tomer1.
Time for an update. I have fermented most of my concentrate, and have 100L sitting in an ex-Octavia wine barrel. I also have ~ 8L of Brandy airing, and 60L of wine ready to distill. Do you still think it wise to add K-meta to the barrel?
The wine doesn't taste too bad, and makes for an excellent cooking wine. But it certainly lacks "something"- be it barrel ageing or complexity.
I only used an Italian yeast as recommended by "Laurie" the wine expert and consultant. Nothing was done with MLF. Maybe the next batch I can try it out.
;)
Possibly it doesnt posses the aromatics or enough phenolic content to be really great wine. (dont sweat it, they very rarely use the top stuff) If you come across some more in the future, would suggest perhaps using it as a base for a red fruit wine or fortified sweet wine. possiblity buying some fresh grapes and adding to the must.
To your question, Oak will not neceserely make it better. will add aroma and some tannins (depends on age of barrel). you should let it age some more and see if it evolves for the better... at 12 months decide... You should use Kmeta as means to protect from bacterial infection and control oxidation. keep the barrel toped up (top every 4 weeks depending on lose).
Mlf gives it alot more softness (gets rid of the bite of malic acid) and also alters some of the aromatic compounds. most of the time it makes red wine taste better... this is why its done in 99.99% of red wines. aged or light early bottled.
Also it ensures better bacterial stabillity. (malic acid is great food for nastys...)
@Tomer1 I still have approx. 40L 10.5 US Gal of concentrate left to experiment with. Was thinking of following @Law_Of_Ohms post above to make some sweet fortified wine/Port.
I'll source some Malolactic bacteria and add it to the 100L of wine that's barrel ageing if that's ok? Otherwise I'll make up a fresh batch of wine using the Malolactic bacteria, and distill the wine that's in the barrel.
Only things I would add are:
just my $.02
Have fun
I have a little of this...
Mycoferm CRU 05
And a lot of this if either are any good to you. Laurie said the CRY-05 is one of the better red wine yeasts around because of it's propensity to precipitate an MLF fermentation. He also said that the lactic acid blend is good it there if still some acid in there to encourage the reaction. This was general advice for cider, but i took it to mean that it was valid for must as well.
Purac® Vin purified Lactic Acid
Happy to send you some of either or both.
StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand
@nvnovrts I've never heard of adding nuts to a ferment before. Just out of interest, which sort would you recommend? I racked the wine into a secondary fermenter to further clear the wine as per your dot point 7. Then off to the barrel it went.
Can I Malo-lactate the wine in the barrel?
@punkin I'm keen on using some of your Lactic Acid. Let me know how much as I need some more SD parts :D
I ended up using the following yeast and additives:
Yeast Mycoferm ES 10
Grape seed tannin - Uvatann-m
Oak Tannin - Tannalier
Yeast activator - Biocibus-Gold
Yeast Nutrient - Nutrozim
PH buffered to 3.5
Remind me with your next order and i'll slip some in NC, i have stacks more than i'll ever seem likely to use.
StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand
Malo is kind of finicky.Pull a sample and mix the malo with the wine. Pitch the malo bacteria into the wine when they are both the same temp. If you have a brew belt use it to keep the wine around 72f-82f. It goes against everything you think about wine. But malo likes it warm. Its a very light ferment a tiny bit of bubbles and CO2 come off. If you are just making wine to make brandy, the malo is unnecessary.
yeast food/nuts are a good habit to get into. Start with a good strong yeast and have a happy fermentation.
Thanks for the info @nvnovrts :)
This will be the first time using malo lactic bacteria, so I'm interested in doing a side-by-side comparison. Although you've still got me interested adding nuts to the ferment. Cashews, Brazil nuts peanuts, almonds - Marzipan wine?