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In this Discussion
- bbok March 2016
- brewsmith August 2014
- captainshooch July 2014
- CothermanDistilling March 2016
- DocPorter August 2014
- Drunkas August 2014
- fadge August 2014
- frodo March 2016
- FullySilenced March 2016
- grim March 2016
- Lloyd August 2014
- Mickiboi August 2014
- MickyMoonshine August 2014
- olddog August 2014
- punkin August 2014
- Smaug August 2014
- Sunshine August 2014
- vooharmy March 2016
- Wallybox August 2014
Comments
Looks to be pretty pricey just for a bunch of plastic and wires...$696
Plast-O-Matic - Series MBV True Blue Ball Valves @ Zmags
The Johnson two-way valves I posted have a shaped orifice to linearize the flow over the full sweep, they aren't just simple ball valves.
The smaller half inch low Cv valve has a wildly shaped orifice, the larger high Cv is not so interestingly shaped. My flow tests show a very linear flow response with both valves, similar tests with simple ball valves would have near full flow with much less than full swing.
I believe the technical term is "characterizing disc" - couldn't remember it yesterday. I can't find a picture of the Johnson valve internals online, but I did find a shot of the Belimo valves, which are similar:
Grim - Do you know what the model number is for your Johnson actuator? Did you get it with the characterizing ball valve installed or did you get them separately?
Off the top of my head, VG1241CN is the 1" valve and VG1241AD is the 1/2 valve.
They came with the characterized disc installed. The 1/2" has a disc that looks similar to the picture above, the 1" valve disc opening looks more like a trapezoid. The motor/controller is 9 - GGA - something, I'd need to look at up.
thinking about something... If you place the probe in the body of the dephlegmator, water moves by it very, very slowly, perhaps 100x slower than it would by a probe in the outlet stream... the cross section of a condenser is that much larger than the outlet, right? This flowing water is what changes the temperature of the probe or thermowell, and by getting nearly all the water to pass the probe, you can wick away or add heat faster to it, resulting in a quicker time to get the probe to the same temperature as the water..... just thinking...
I'd have the same argument I would when people say that slow acting proportional valves aren't suitable for this use.
Product and Reflux condensers, by their very nature, need to operate in very tight temperature ranges during production. If the temperature is varying enough that a slow valve is a problem, you've got bigger problems. I agree that slow-to-respond sensors may cause an issue, but in reality, the sensors will operate significantly faster than any other component in the system.
Locating the probe in the condenser serves a different purpose. If you are measure on the outflow, how do you measure the temp of the coolant if your flow is zero? Unless you allow for a bypass, you would find yourself in a situation where the coolant temp measured at the output is significantly different from in the condenser itself. During low cooling demands, the bypass itself would introduce significant "slowness". Imagine a situation where you have a 1 gallon volume condenser, but your bypass is only .1g per minute. How long will it take you before you get the correct temperature at the outflow? The temp in the condenser is a gradient, it's not homogeneous. You'd be pushing at the cooler liquid at the top before you pushed out the hotter liquid at the bottom.
If you are looking for higher levels of responsiveness, they make RTD probes with a significantly reduced cladding over the tip. They also make copper tip RTDs.
Either way, no free lunch.
Hmm, that is an interesting thought @CothermanDistilling, glad I have that fancy new defleg to do some hands on research :) Speaking of heat transfer, I gutted an old rtd probe and slid the actual resistor portion into the 1/4 thermowell, and was wondering if you or anyone else was using thermal paste of something similar inside the thermowell tip to get better readings. We use generally don't use anything on our big fermenters at the brewery because heat gradient changes so slowly, but in this application where you are looking for quick response, I was curious if this was more of an issue.
I put my bead type thermistor in, then slid the SD thermoprobe in and pushed it in with some 1/16" welding rod (the SD thermometer probe lightly squeezed the thermistor probe wire against the inner wall of the thermowell to hold it snugly in place, but you could put thermopaste on the tip also.... I was very happy with the temp sensitivity the way I did it... I have my BCS program set to start cooling water in the dephleg when the temp below the dephleg hit 120F, and never had an issue.
Awesome reading. Looking at ways to monitor (no necessarily control) at this point and came across some sanitary thermocouple gasket ideas someone else might benefit from:
Stainless Steel - Spore Trap Thermocouple Clamps
Smart Gasket Thermocouples
Smart Gasket Thermocouples
With the use of that gasket you would have access inside the column for small motors or spinning plates or electric controls for solenoid plate dumping... most anything hell of an idea... and the list goes on
hmmm... i have another idea... a band around the CD special gasket that holds a thermocouple (that pierces the CD gasket) up against the copper plate... temp probe at every plate and a little bling to boot...
Interesting concept as long as it doesnt leak
I use a piece of 1/4'' copper tube as a thermowell, easy, quick, no leaks
I drill a 3/8'' hole in the pipe
I bend/ping a flange (90 degree from vertical) on a 2'' piece of 3/8'' tubing
this is my solder sleeve..
crimp/solder 1 end of 1/4'' tube..
slide 1/4'' tubing into the sleeve. solder all to pipe
my gauge probe fits snugly in the well. down into the vapor stream
I would prefer using a P&T plug, but the gasket material is not compatible
but it is not modular! LOL
They make triclamp RTDs...
<<<<<< OK >>>>>>>> LOL