Stripping Run --> Spirit run: How to minimise wastage?

BorisTheMidget

Hey Folks,

I have ~80L of wash for a 100L still, which is now at the point it's ready to go through a stripping run. Using a wash calculator, it looks like we'll end up with about 15L of spirit post stripping run. This is my first time, so i'm guessing as i've got the reflux column running, we'll be able to collect (after foreshots / heads / tails) around 12L of usable spirit for spirit run.

Question is, given that i've got a 100L still with about 12L for the spirit run, what should i add back into the collection so i can re-run it through the still? i'm worried that if i pop that 12L in, its not enough to cover the element at the bottom and i'll bugger the heating element. From memory, i think it needs about 5 or 10L at the bottom of the still to cover the element.

thanks!!

crozdog

If you're running a reflux column, you don't need to do a stripping run first. You can do it in a single pass.

If you can let us know more about the wash, your rig and what you're trying to achieve, It'll help you get better answers.

yeah 12l in a 100l still isn't enough. If you're keen on doing strips before spirit runs (typically done when running a pot still) you can save and combine several strips of the same wash to get the required volume for a spirit run to ensure that not only do you cover the elements at the start, but importantly at the end of the run they are still covered.

BorisTheMidget

Hi @crozdog, thanks for that! that is super useful info. A mate of mine was importing / exporting out of china, and we hopped on the import and grabbed one (think he paid about $3k inc onion & 4 plate column).

We're looking at making gin / vodka at the moment, so we're looking for a high alcohol content neutral spirit (we're using a chasing the craft wash recipe), which we'll water down to about %45 --> %50.

grim

What @crozdog says - doesn't pay to do a strip and spirit run at 1:1.

4 strips to 1 spirit. Ferment and strip 3 more batches.

Remove the plates, reflux condenser, and gin basket when you strip, they are just slowing you down.

DonMateo

What @crozdog said. I used one still for a long time and I would do three strips and then a spirit run. Remember on the spirit run to dilute your spirit down. So if you make 3 strips at 15l each you will have 45l of low wines. You should dilute that down with another 40 or 50 l of water and then do your spirit run.

punkin

May as well be running a pot still. It defeats the purpose of the plated still unless you are trying for vodka with an insufficient number of plates.

BorisTheMidget

thanks everyone for your responses!

@punkin - can i ask for a little more info on this one? When i spoke with the manufacture, they we indicating that 4 plates would be enough for a high quality vodka. To help me learn (i am not trying to be rude), do you believe this is not the case, and could i ask why?

Smaug

@BorisTheMidget said: thanks everyone for your responses!

punkin - can i ask for a little more info on this one? When i spoke with the manufacture, they we indicating that 4 plates would be enough for a high quality vodka. To help me learn (i am not trying to be rude), do you believe this is not the case, and could i ask why?

Ok firstly, have a look at anyone making a premium vodka. 16ish to 30 plates would be the tool they use. 30 being the theoretical max. Anyone making vodka with a 4 plate column is just not really making vodka or having success marketing a premium vodka spirit unless they are at least charcoal filtering.

Also consider that less plates than that can certainly render high proof. Lets take a 10 plate column for example (or perhaps even less). If you are able to achieve 95% abv with 10 plates it will not be as "clean" as the same 95% driven through 16 plates or more. Why? Because you will need to run at a higher reflux ratio with the shorter column to maintain proof. The higher reflux ratio means that you will be dragging up "extra" flavor congeners. Particularly with the 4 plate column. Higher plate count with lower reflux ratio is the best way to render the cleanest spirit possible.

The 4 plate column does not at all have the ability to make a proper modern vodka. It is a tool that does much better making flavored spirits like rum , whiskey and brandies.

Now,,you can certainly do multiple runs to clean the spirit up to the extent possible. But in doing so you will loose product and spend additional resources with respect to labor hours and utilities. Now your "basic" vodka costs more to produce than a more desirable whiskey. This is why so many folks source NGS for their vodka. The least desirable spirit costs the most to make. In other words, you can very frequently buy NGS cheaper than it costs to make it unless your distillery is outfitted correctly.

The equipment will never cost more than the labor to operate the equipment over the service life of the equipment. If you want to make a premium vodka, buy a dedicated vodka still.

Use the short plated column for your flagship flavored spirits and put together a smaller dedicated vodka still. It will likely be less expensive than putting together one of those "jack of all trades , master of none" type stills.

Punkin will likely be along to fill in the gaps.

EDIT: Ah wait. Are you a hobbyist? If so the production cost concerns don't have the same priority. You can make "vodka" on any still.

punkin

Up on Cripple Creek, She sends me.

I don't have to speak, She defends me. :))

BorisTheMidget

@Smaug said: EDIT: Ah wait. Are you a hobbyist? If so the production cost concerns don't have the same priority. You can make "vodka" on any still.

Hey @Smaug, OK, that was super useful! I appreciate the time you took for a detailed response.

And yes, I am hobbyist, so you're right production costs don't matter too much. But, we are nerds, so throwing a bit more cash and adding a few more plates isn't an issue, but roof height might be our limiting factor. Might need to pull a few roof shingles off - hahaha

grim

A rusty steel pipe filled with screws, nails, nuts and bolts will make a perfectly acceptable premium vodka ... if it's tall enough.

Smaug

Yessir, as grim mentions a column with random packing might be the best way to get the purity you are looking for. Particularly if you have ceiling height restrictions.

Punkin what was the rule of thumb for height vs width? Was it 30x the diameter for azeo or something?

grim

Boris the Midget as a vodka brand ... might just move some bottles. Can't wait to see the label art.

richard

@Smaug said: Punkin what was the rule of thumb for height vs width? Was it 30x the diameter for azeo or something?

The factor for plated columns ?

Smaug

@richard said: The factor for plated columns ?

No sir. The diameter to height ratio for columns with random packing materials.

punkin

A short packed section with some structured copper mesh is what most of the hobby guys here use on top. I do a 4" x 510mm with mesh screen, clamp and gasket and i sell a heap of them.

richard

@Smaug said: No sir. The diameter to height ratio for columns with random packing materials.

Seems excessive. Say 125mm diameter x 30 = 3.75m. Normally a minimum of 1.2m packed section is sufficient plus RC etc. on top. I could relate to this if it were plates at pitches of say 100mm and 30 plates were the requirement.

grim

"Short packed section" aligns a bit better with the brand concept of "Boris the midget".

A tall, slender column simply wouldn't make any sense at all.

Smaug

@richard said: Seems excessive. Say 125mm diameter x 30 = 3.75m. Normally a minimum of 1.2m packed section is sufficient plus RC etc. on top. I could relate to this if it were plates at pitches of say 100mm and 30 plates were the requirement.

Thanks. Yeah I can't remember what that rule of thumb was.

Totochtin

20:1 is used on HD
Tōtō