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Three-Chamber Still
I'm currently involved in an exciting project where we're constructing what may be Australia's first three-chamber still for producing single malt whisky. We're aiming to simulate the process using Aspen Plus or Aspen HYSYS to understand the temperature and pressure profiles throughout the system.
The still design includes three chambers, each 900mm in height and 1300mm in diameter. To manage pressure, we've incorporated a 2" pressure relief pipe from each chamber extending to the top. However, I'm encountering difficulties with the simulation, particularly with the semi-continuous nature of the process.
I'm reaching out to see if anyone has experience or data on temperature and pressure profiles that could inform our simulation. Specifically, we're looking for insights on:
- Typical temperature ranges that should be maintained in each chamber for optimal distillation of single malt whisky.
- Pressure profiles that are expected in a three-chamber still system.
- Any specific considerations for modeling a semi-continuous distillation process in Aspen software.
- Recommendations for setting up the relief system in the simulation to accurately reflect the physical setup.
Any guidance, references, or examples of similar simulations would be immensely helpful. If you require further details to provide assistance, please let me know, and I'll be happy to provide them.
Comments
My recipe development one won't be complete for a bit so can't help... sorry.
I think you're going to be hard pressed to find any hard data. You could reach out to Todd Leopold... he's the only one that I've heard of running a three chamber.... I have no idea how open he'll be with that info though.
Look up the boston apothacry's documents on three chamber still operation. There is enough information there to get started. With some engineering knowledge and temperature pressure calculations you should be able to figure it out. As for the first in Oz there is a distillery in perth that had a vendome three chamber still on order.
I'd consider the fact that it can not be modeled.
Funny you say this, I've been emailing with Haggy from HD (dude is far smarter than I am) I was trying to get an idea what to expect with certain design elements that I wanted to implement in mine using his double thumper calculator and he keeps finding variables that I didn't even think of. Best we were able to come up with is that you run each chamber for however long it takes for the preheater charge to point where it would start vaporizing then that's when you drop the charges. Once you establish a few baselines with your first run then everything else will become clear.
Wager a bet that the theoretical plate count is less than 1 - (less separation of volatiles than simple batch distillation with no plates, however abv increases due to water condensing out in the "column").
Smear, baby, smear.
I'd once heard this called "fractional condensation" and not "fractional distillation", and there is something satisfying about that.
Said another way, maybe clearer, maybe not.
At the start of each cycle, the upper stages initially function as dephlegmators, as the temperature rises, they switch to functioning as highly inefficient pot stills.
Maybe another analogy is a capacitor - at the start of each cycle, they accumulate charge, and when they hit the tipping point that charge is released.
My understanding and I'm 100% prepared to be wrong about this...
If you're using it as a finishing still the doubler/thumper have got to count for more somewhere around 1 plate, otherwise how do we get to barreling strength in a single pass?
Driving slower.
StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America
I'm missing something, can you elaborate?
Hey @DMdistilling mate. Your not from Tasmania are you ? Where I am from in Oz if people attempt to help you, you normally say thanks mate.
Sure.
When thinking of batch distillation as an example, low and slow will provide a few extra "proof points".
I wish I could find the passage of how Mike Mc Coy explains ( and I'm paraphrasing) how applying just enough heat to optimize separation. But my search kung-fu is weak.
StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America
That makes sense, thanks man
Is that needed? Are you making the place better with that comment?
They haven't responded at all, let alone just to say thanks to you.
StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand
You know mate I was wondering about this and I have to ask the question why would you use a three chamber still to make a single malt whiskey unless the only marketing selling factor you want is to say you made it in a three chamber still.
If you look at the historical information in the pincock and holt report from 1908, in the US at that time malted whiskey and bourbon were made either in column stills or in pot stills. Three chamber stills were almost only used for rye whiskeys which had the grain bill over 40% UNMALTED, rye. In the malting process you lose most of the vegetable oils that a three chamber still concentrates. These guys are not going to get the product they think they will get out of a three chamber still. Which is why Leopold brothers uses their three chamber for Rye and their other stills for non rye whiskey.
Interestingly i just saw a post on Instagram that Leopold is going to run a pear brandy through their 3 chamber
Hey everyone, I want to thank you all for sharing your opinions with me. Currently, I am working on modelling the process using Aspen Plus and HYSYS. However, since it's not a continuous process, it's taking me more time to work on it as a semicontinuous process. @DonMateo , you are right that I could get ferulic acid from rye, which is a phenolic acid that gives more flavour to the whisky. However, we are building a continuous still and three-chamber still exclusively for whisky production. so I'm just trying to get a simulation for chamber still which give me enough data about process. 105 celsius for bottom chamber
Hey mate. Everytime ibdid the calculations incame up with 1.06 bar and a temp of 106 deg thats with a liquid column height of 600mm. The main source of doubt that i have is wash does not behave like water due to the ethanol content. So the temperature effect is probably higher. As well i live at 900masl. So my boiling point for water and wash is 3 degrees lower. There is only one way to find out. Build it and they will come.