StillDragon® Community Forum

Welcome!

Be part of our community & join our international next generation forum now!

In this Discussion

In Development - 3" Vodka Rig

image

Waiting for the delivery of the SS wool from the US to test this configuration. Starting at the bottom is the new 4x3x3 Torpedo TW (thermowell). It will have just one 4" bubble plate for the first test run. Above that are 2 sections of 3" TC pipe x 510mm (20") that will be packed with the wool. Hard to know if 40" of packing will be enough without actually running it. Then is a new fitting - a reduced height 3x3x2 Tee TW. Above that is the long 3" dephlegmator. Clamped to the 3x3x2 TW tee is a 2" TC butterfly valve that leads to a 90, a long product shotgun condenser and to the parrot assembly. I will be quite pleased if this rig produces 3.8 liters (1 US gallon) per hour of clean neutral azeotrope.

Tagged:

Comments

  • Looks excellent Lloyd. We,d be supplying the tee with thermowell?

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • edited May 2013

    @punkin said: Looks excellent Lloyd. We,d be supplying the tee with thermowell?

    Yes, the TW fittings are being made now. They will be available in USA in about 2 months or less. I'll have some in my storeroom in about a month.

  • edited May 2013

    The SS wool has arrived. Its so fluffy. It doesn't take much to pack a 3" x 20" pipe section. About 4.5 little rolls, about 130 grams per pipe section. I cut the wool at 24" and rolled it up and stuffed the pipes. 1/2 a little roll was sticking out and that went into the next pipe.

    image

    image

    SAM_0149.JPG
    800 x 600 - 96K
    SAM_0150.JPG
    800 x 600 - 101K
  • LLoyd getting excited here where can I get steel wool like that here in the states?

  • Contact Larry. That's how I got mine :-bd

  • This looks great (and I already have many of the parts needed) :-)

    Don't know how easy to mass-produce, but an added LM section would be the icing on the cake.

  • edited May 2013

    Not the success I was hoping for.

    image

    40" of packing only got me to 94%, temperature corrected. Adding 12" more got me to 95%, temp corrected. Didn't get azeotrope and didn't measure the liters per hour but it was certainly a lot slower than a gallon per hour. I doubt I got have that. The little things like reflux centerers and column insulation could make the difference. The product is definitely neutral. Its just not azeotrope at a fast take-off rate.

    This could very well be a case of me needing to learn how to drive it properly.

    1/4" to spare between the ceiling and the reflux condenser.

    image

    3in vodka rig1.jpg
    147 x 398 - 23K
    3in vodka rig2.jpg
    158 x 400 - 17K
  • Well, now and humm... The cleaning run was done and I couldn't pull azeotrope. I tipped it all down the drain and flushed out the column and boiler then added enough water to cover the elements and put enough 62% low wines to bring the boiler charge to about 35%.

    I'm getting exactly azeotrope now, without changing anything on the still except the boiler charge, and the takeoff speed is almost exactly 3 liters per hour. Later in the run I'll open her up a bit to see if I can get to 3.8 L/h and still hold azeotrope. I doubt it. But I can live with 3 L/h. The spirit is as clean as can be and not a bit of heat on the tongue. This column is, however, uncomfortably tall.

    The new Dragon Fire alcoholmeters have a dotted line at 95.6%. Its cool to see the distillate exactly on that mark.

  • Didn't think so. Pushing more power and/or opening the butterfly valve up a bit only dropped the ABV down a point. This rig is certainly not fully optimized (such as column insulation and reflux centerers) but it easily cranks out 3L/h of azeotrope. I can certainly accept that. It could also be that cutting the mesh a few inches longer to make a more dense packing could be beneficial. I'm thinking this stuff should be rolled more tightly than I'm used to doing with woven copper mesh.

    This project is completed now and all of the parts will soon be available. The SS mesh is made in USA so that's a quick item to stock. The 2" butterfly valves will be a stock item on both the USA and Australian SD websites. The only special fittings are the thermowell fittings and they will be available soon.

    I leave it up to you guys now to squeeze out every performance increase.

  • Good stuff Lloyd. Insulation will definately make a big difference. I may have to start stocking the copper mesh again.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • wonder if insulation for the pipe sections would be a good addition for SD...

    an insulation with a velcro slit to install and remove it for cleaning? they could also come in a universal length so that the customer could cut it to fit a custom application...

    just a thought

  • Lloyd, will the 4x3x3 Torpedo TW (thermowell) accept both a thermometer and bubble plate? Could you post a closeup picture?

    Thanks, Bod

  • edited May 2013

    @FullySilenced: an insulation with a velcro slit to install and remove it for cleaning? they could also come in a universal length so that the customer could cut it to fit a custom application...

    I found some 3 1/2" x 3/4" pipe insulation (Aerocel) at a local supplier - 6 ' for $20. I had to trim it down just a bit but it slides on and off my 12" and 20" 3" sections just fine with the permanent tape applied. It is rated for 250° F.

  • We have a perfect one already on the shelves of the plumbing supply places here (and i assume it's available worldwide) called Armaflex. It comes slit or unslit and will stretch over a ferrule ok if you use unslit stuff. You can specify the thickness too.

    http://www.insulation.com.au/products-1/fr-armaflex-pipe-insulation

    It's cool to the touch when running a reflux column.

    Pretty readily available from Reece or the like and fairly cheap here.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • Armaflex is primarily used in the HVAC business in the states. It comes up to a 2 inch I think. I used to buy it by the truck load when I had my HVAC company. It is great stuff but would love to know if there is a boiler blanket in the works? I think that would be an awesome addition to SD. I know I would buy at least 2 to fit both of my boilers.. Chris

  • Lloyd I have a LM/VM hybrid with almost the same configuration. I always seem to find myself using the LM side of the head. Its more work to operate but it just does 96% from the get-go, where the VM seems to want to do 94%.

    Just an observation, I know others have different views,

    Rossco

  • It was difficult holding 95+% on my VM. Even the slightest increase in production speed would cause a lower %ABV. I'm sure it could be optimized with tighter packing, centerers and insulation. Rossco, how does your LM take-off speed compare to your VM? Is it a Boc style LM?

  • edited May 2013

    Gd'ay Llloyd. Its a twin plate bokka setup, pic shows the hybrid head with the LM side removed. Made by a bloke in Hanoi. I have been thinking about adding more power to see if that helps the VM side of things. Difference in takeoff at 2200watts is at least an hour and possibly more like two, over the entire run. Bok is way quicker. Plastic container is for the removal of fores. Rossco

    image

    20120915120709.jpg
    480 x 640 - 75K
  • Lloyd said: "enough water to cover the elements and put enough 62% low wines to bring the boiler charge to about 35%. I'm getting exactly azeotrope now, without changing anything on the still except the boiler charge, and the takeoff speed is almost exactly 3 liters per hour. Later in the run I'll open her up a bit to see if I can get to 3.8 L/h and still hold azeotrope. I doubt it. But I can live with 3 L/h."

    A couple things Lloyd. I packed a 40" X 3" column with this stuff (med grade) and it definitely puts out more that 3 liters of azeotrope. Hard to explain how to roll this stuff. I did a great job on the 3" column and made it way too tight loading the 4" column and it floods. I think you might be able to go a little tighter for more density........that and insulation and I'm betting it'll perform MUCH better than 3/L per hour.

  • Thanks Minime, I'm sure you are right.

    I say, forget what you know by useing copper mesh and roll the SS wool tighter than you feel comfortable about. I kept notes (around here somewhere?) of exactly how much I used by weigth and length of each roll.

    Its about time to repack the column and test it out again.

  • This looks really nice, got to get me one when SD Europe gets going :-)

  • It would also be nice to get some instructions how to run this rig properly. This would be my first proper rig, the old tabletop AquaStill is ready for retirement :P

  • @Lloyd, looks like we need a whole manual collection!

    StillDragon Europe - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Europe & the surrounding area

  • I have a VM manual written already. I'll give it to someone to work over?

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • couple of stupid Questions, curiosity is getting the better of me:

    I see the ss wool comes in 1 and 5 lbs , I am thinking that 1 lbs will be enough for 30 in column? Is that about right?

    Also Loyd, I noticed that you have a defleg on top of the rig , how does that work in VM mode?

  • edited November 2013

    Any updates on this rig? Very interesting.

    About 3-4 years ago, when I was planning my all stainless Tri-Clamp 3" VM, minime gave me a LOT of input and was very helpful. I started out using a 3"x3"x3" tee. He directed me to this topic @ HD.

    Which stemmed off to this topic (the 5th comment down) @ HD.

    Basically what I gathered was that a 2" tee on a 3" column may perform better than a 3" tee. Perhaps the increased vapor speed (due to the 2"-3" reduction) may provide an increased takeoff rate?

    In the book 'The Complete Distiller' it shows the following examples. Notice all but one has a reduced tee at the takeoff. The only one that doesn't demonstrates where blanking plates could be used:

    image image

    image image

    I then bought a 2" x 2" x 2" tee and two 3" end caps. I plasma cut a centered hole in each 3" end cap.

    image

    I then welded the end caps to the top and bottom of the 2" tee. This drawing should demonstrate what I'm talking about:

    image

    That's just how I did mine. I haven't tested it yet. I couldn't comment on whether or not using a 2" tee would give better results, higher production rate, etc... I just thought I'd mention it because a 3" tee was being used in the SD pics. I suppose 'blank plates' could be used with a 3" tee. I don't know if that would give the same results or not.

    1.jpg
    330 x 728 - 28K
    2.jpg
    293 x 414 - 20K
    3.jpg
    291 x 415 - 14K
    4.jpg
    251 x 638 - 19K
    5.jpg
    734 x 550 - 60K
    6.jpg
    546 x 731 - 52K
  • From all reports over the years from VM's i've built without equal restriction to high equal restriction models built by others the differences are small in measurable figures anyway.

    Doesn't seem much more difference than individual builds explains.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • My gut reaction is that you get a bigger variation in performance (with the inline versions) when you put a bit of packing under the condenser - but this is due to a change in back pressure.

    These days I use an offset design with a reduced T - BUT I suspect it would work just as well without the reduction. The physical obstruction of a T at the top of the column does a good job of splitting the vapour paths.

Sign In or Register to comment.