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Am I Crazy for Liking Low Wattage?

edited November 2013 in Usage

I'd consider myself a newb, but I do have some successful runs under my belt.

I have two boilers, a 15 gal and an 8 gal. I usually use the 8 gallon for spirit runs from low wines, or for creating flavored spirits straight from clean washes.

Here's the crazy part. I have the ability to throw 3kw at the 8 gallon, but I actually prefer using 1.5kw. I set it to 90% power, and just let it sit like that throughout the whole run.

The only thing I fuss with is the dephlegm, and changing jars.

Sure, it takes about 70 minutes to heat up, but that's the only downside.

With 1.5kw I find that even a baby dephlegm can knock down everything but the fores. I let it stay for 30-45 min after stabilization, then lower the dephlegm coolant to start collecting. I don't even look at the heater. It puts out about 1.5 L/hr, so it's not fast by any means, but it's fast enough for me.

No problems with belching. The heads/hearts/tails have clear temperature changes. It basically drives itself. Plus, I swear the product is smoother than when I go a bit faster with more wattage. Even the same proof tastes better.

Am I nuts?

Let me clarify...I'm obviously nuts in general, but am I especially nuts because I sit back and relax with 1.5kw?

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Comments

  • no, your not nuts!

    You just have patience, nice slow run can make some wonderful booze

  • Taking longer to do something you enjoy sounds like a good thing to me. Does running less power to the column result in taking longer for the fores and heads to compress?

  • Not at all.
    I have tried running at the max potential speed for my VM column and I just don't do it anymore. It is too hands on and stressful. I like to compare it to cars.

    You can run a 2.6 litre flat four at max or a cruise a 5 litre V8 at the same speed. Both work, but one is a lot more relaxed than the other.

    If you want a faster production rate I will always recommend increasing your column diameter before you boost your boiler power.

  • @Fluxed said: I'd consider myself a newb, but I do have some successful runs under my belt.

    I have two boilers, a 15 gal and an 8 gal. I usually use the 8 gallon for spirit runs from low wines, or for creating flavored spirits straight from clean washes.

    Here's the crazy part. I have the ability to throw 3kw at the 8 gallon, but I actually prefer using 1.5kw. I set it to 90% power, and just let it sit like that throughout the whole run.

    The only thing I fuss with is the dephlegm, and changing jars.

    Sure, it takes about 70 minutes to heat up, but that's the only downside.

    With 1.5kw I find that even a baby dephlegm can knock down everything but the fores. I let it stay for 30-45 min after stabilization, then lower the dephlegm coolant to start collecting. I don't even look at the heater. It puts out about 1.5 L/hr, so it's not fast by any means, but it's fast enough for me.

    No problems with belching. The heads/hearts/tails have clear temperature changes. It basically drives itself. Plus, I swear the product is smoother than when I go a bit faster with more wattage. Even the same proof tastes better.

    Am I nuts?

    Let me clarify...I'm obviously nuts in general, but am I especially nuts because I sit back and relax with 1.5kw?

    The machine design are you using? I ask because you write that when dividing fractions are aiming for a thermometer.

  • edited November 2013

    I have a two-plate torpedo with a 12 inch packed section above it, baby dephlegm. Then a 180 bend, and a 24 inch shotgun.

    The top torpedo, below the 12 inch packed section, has a thermo-well.

    I take 200 ml fraction throughout the whole run (not counting fores), and I record what the temperature was for that fraction. If the temperature starts to change, I'll jump to the next fraction even if it hasn't reached 200 ml yet.

    When it's all done, I check the proof of each fraction. It usually correlates perfectly with the temperature.

    On my rig, fores come out during stabilization. Then Heads (180 proof) come out when the thermometer reads 71˚C. Hearts (175 proof) is consistently 74˚C, and Tails come when it jumps to 79˚C. Tails start at about 160 proof and drops off quickly. I stop collecting when it gets to 100 proof or so.

    If I let it continue to reflux for a good 30 minutes after it stabilizes to 71˚C, the temperature change between the heads/hearts and hearts/tails is very fast.

  • Thank you. I know I whine, but I can still ask for a picture of your machine? I need to find the conversion of your% of my% :) Is 180 proof is 90%? ABV?

    Ps

    I have read the torpedo design, which gives it looks like.

  • Yes, 180 proof is 90% ABV.

  • Is 90% all you can achieve? With that setup? Or are you trying to achieve 90%? And what are you making? Flavored or neutral in this scenario?

    Seams a bit low for a neutral from that still setup?

    And a spirit run on a low wines charge. Will take less power then a low ABV wash.

  • edited November 2013

    I go for a clean white rum or bourbon-like rum. I should clarify, the majority of my runs are straight from wash. Depending on how I cut I can get to 93 from a 10% wash, although the "auto-pilot" method consistently gives me 90 after I pool all the fractions.

    The 1.35 kw is what I use for boiling washes. Lower for wines.

    What can you achieve with 2 plates and a 12 in packed column, from a wash?

    From wines I can get higher, but for me, the difference isn't worth the second run. I like the flavor of my panela and panela/corn spirits straight from wash.

  • I just figured it would be better then mine. Since you have two plates. One plate and 12" of packing. I get 90% without trying. I have a hard time getting it down into the 80s. And if I allow it to equalize for any amount of time. It's gona spit out 95% from a 8% wash. With out even trying for it.

  • edited November 2013

    That's great. Any pointers about the specs of your run would be most appreciated.

    What temp does you output flow? What volume of fores/heads/hearts/tails do you get?

    Advice is certainly more useful than turning it into a pissing contest.

  • I don't use a thermometer. So I can't give you temps. I only monitor ABV with a parrot. Percentages? Never broke it down. And I make its much different then others do. I make very strict hearts cuts. And keep all the feints (heads and tails) for all feints runs for neutral. So the less I keep for the first run. The cleaner it is. And the more neutral I end up with.

    I also run around 3000 watts. And can do a 10 to 11 gal run in around 3 hours. Fill to drain. From a 8% wash getting around 89% hearts. I plan to start pulling my panela off at more like 93% or so.

    But I haven't made a run all summer. And need to break out the still and get some runs done.

  • Oh yeah. My one plate is a little different then yours.

  • edited November 2013

    89%?! I'm getting 90% ABV, which you originally said isn't up to par. Last time I checked, 90 was higher than 89.

    But comparing your 95% (or 89%, or 93%) ABV to my 90% ABV is useless anyway, because you don't account for temp. A few degrees can make the difference between reading 90%ABV and 95% ABV. My readings are all corrected for that.

    I think you're missing the overall point of this thread though. It's not about what you CAN do. It's about what you CHOOSE to do.

    I could increase my wattage and cut down an 8 gal wash-to-spirit run to two hours. But that's not what I choose to do. I find it easier to slow it down and basically let it drive itself. Plus, I find that the product is smoother and nicer that way, even at the same ABV.

  • edited January 2014

    I did my first spirit run on a Dash2 yesterday. 100l of 25ish% low wines. I threw 7200w at it for the initial heat up, dropped off one of the 3600w elements when the first 2 plates were bubbling and then I just played around with the wattage and the dephlegmator input after that.

    It took 14 hours... and that was shutting it off at 80% ABV

    Am I driving her way too soft? or can I ride her HARDER? I didn't really want to experiment too much yesterday. I just want to know I'm in the ballpark. I collected some very nice hearts :) F@%k carbon

  • What speed were you collecting at?

  • edited January 2014

    At peak I estimate about 1L per hour. Although collection rate about the only thing I wasnt paying any attention about. Thanks.

    Edit- it was for a neutral

  • I reckon you could go a bit faster than that especially with the higher ABV low wines. I experimented the other week with 5 plates and a 500mm packed section and managed 95.6 ABV through the hearts run at about 2-2.5l per hour.

  • I thought I was being a bit soft. Thanks.

  • I'd shoot for about 3L per hour and adjust up or down depending on the quality you are getting vs what you want to get.
    Once mine is dialed in I don't mess with it much so the proof remains about the same but the collection speed begins to slowly diminish. With a low wines spirit run of about 35% or so and 5 to 6 plates I usually get about 4L per hour at the beginning and closer to 1.5 or 2L per hour at the end.
    It slows to a crawl at the beginning of tails but holds a constant ABV of about 94% or so. The other way to run, which I also do, is to add more boiler power and reflux than necessary, like "overclocking" a computer. Production speed is held more consistent across the run, about 3L per hour, but the tails can creep into the last of the hearts a lot easier and the ABV can drop a bit toward to end. Starting at about 94 to 95% and holding well until tails begin where it drops quickly to 80-85% and I shutdown. (I don't generally collect tails).
    Both ways work well for me. The first gives a cleaner heart and the second gives slightly more flavor at a faster takeoff speed.

  • edited January 2014

    If I read that 2 days ago it would not have made too much sense. Perfectly clear now :)
    Thanks

  • edited January 2014

    Happy to help, @cunnyfunt. Please post your results too because there are so many variables.
    I'm just now, finally, learning how to balance my dephlegmator to get what I want.
    My favorite piece of advice, that was given to me a long time ago but only now taking to heart, is to make VERY small adjustments and wait much longer than you think to adjust again.
    And getting the dephlegmator on its own cooling water supply instead of in series with the product condenser has also helped tons. That one small step has made dephlegmator stabilization so much easier for me to dial in.
    Putting thermometers everywhere that you can imagine, especially on the dephlegmator exit water, has its benefits. To me, that's THE most important place to monitor temperature. The next would be the vapor temp above the dephlem, then the temp of the product as it exits the parrot, followed by the temp of the vapor in the boiler and last would be anywhere in the column because I don't find that information very useful.

    It does not matter what the number displays on the thermometer of the dephlem exit water but that when you get it dialed in it stays there. A drop in water pressure (by flushing the toilet, for example) can cause a temporary temp spike and one needs to avoid fiddling with the controls because it will usually recover soon enough.

    And lastly, as if this was not enough, you have to avoid constantly adjusting the knob on your power controller. That was probably the single hardest lesson for me to learn as I found it irresistible to bump the knob up only to find that I needed to put it back again.

  • edited January 2014

    Sounds like you need a control panel @Lloyd.

    OD

  • @olddog said: Sounds like you need a control panel Lloyd.

    I'd say everyone should have one ;)

    Your Place to be >>> www.StillDragon.org <<< Home of the StillDragon® Community Forum

  • I think it's only a matter of time before me and everyone else has automated control.
    Ran my Dash with great results without any thermometers for a long time and now I couldn't imagine not having them. With automation like @olddog's controllers I'd probably need a robot to push the On/Off button because that would be the ultimate.

    PID in my future? You bet. The future is here today and like it or not still automation is the next big thing. I'm intimated to build it myself but I do WANT one. And that usually translates into me getting one :D Next step is to get approval from the finance committee but she will be visiting her family soon for 2 weeks!!!

  • But that kind of gets back to the chicken and egg conundrum.
    Is it better to own and operate a simple pot still, and fully understand it, before venturing into more complicated stills?
    Is it better to understand how to manually operate a plated, or packed for that matter, column before going automated?
    Fine spirits are still made by the simplest of stills.

    But for all my fiddling to tune in or dial in to get my plated still purring along I KNOW that electronic automation is about the same difference as using a DIY controller with electric elements vs shoveling coal or wood to burn under the boiler.

    How can StillDragon be part of this revolution? We drove prices down for DIY controller kits to $31 (other folks want $80 to $500 for basically the same thing) in the US but these automated controllers are more custom and lots more complicated.

  • Dang, that was just too damn easy - something must be wrong - because I'm pre-approved now to order an automated controller from @olddog.

    Maybe it was the many hundreds of DIY controllers that we sold in the last few months?
    Maybe because of my rugged good looks and awesome powers of persuasion?
    Maybe because I waited until she was tired and sleepy and would agree to anything?

    Whatever the case maybe olddog and I will soon be trying to build out an automated controller, built in Australia, and shipped to China with mostly Chinese parts.

    Ain't love grand? :D

  • Happy to oblige Lloyd

    OD

  • Lloyd and OD sitting in a tree K.I.S.S.I.N...

  • God I hope so.
    I know that automation of still control is THE future and @olddog holds the keys.
    I'm kissing up as you can tell.

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