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New 5" SD Stuff

First of all, none of these 5" parts are available yet for sale. They are all prototypes.
Production will begin in March and if you let your distributor know that you are interested in any of these parts he will stock them for you.

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To show scale, the 4", 5" and 6" Bubble Tees are shown.

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Well, that's the stuff to transition from one size to the next and is hard to break so lets move on to the 5" Crystal Dragon stuff ...

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Not much to show yet, just the glass and sight tower ends. The custom gaskets are being produced but haven't arrived yet. Hoping all the little bits show up before the big holiday here begins.

I have more than enough power to run a 4" bubble column but not enough for a 6". I believe a 5" still will be the best size for my needs.
This is the first time I've developed a SS and a glass column at the same time and I must say the SS is quicker and easier but the glass is just so cool to watch.

The special cut gaskets arrived late last night for the 5" Bubble Tees but the mould was made wrong and produced a gasket that's slightly too big. That will need to be made again and probably will not arrive before the holiday.

The prototype 5" plates are to be made in SS for the test but production pieces will be copper. I'm setting up to run the 5" CD prototype with 8 plates and I'm going to push it as hard as I can to see what she'll do, then throttle back to see what a more normal run will produce.

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Comments

  • Looks great boss. Keep up the good fight.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • Looks tops! Might have to see if anyone wants to buy my 4" so I can upgrade to one of these

  • +1

    Soon to be market for a bit of 4" surplus equipment perhaps. SD second hand dealers licence perhaps, (punkin?)

    Fadge

  • edited January 2014

    Haha, @punkin a second hand still seller :))

    The 5" has yet to be assembled and tested but members of this forum have access to new SD development activities. SD, the world leaders of loony bin ideas and products ripped off by, well, you know who they are. Watch their sites and see how long it takes them to copy SD. I give it six months and they will magically 'invent' the 5" =))

    It will be a couple of weeks before any results are known and if we don't get at least a 30%+ production improvement (5 hours of run time reduced to 3 hours) then the whole project is probably a flop because 4" stuff and smaller has a relatively low price compare to 4"+ stuff.
    The main difference is I think I can power a 5" comfortably but I know I cannot power a 6" with any kind of justice.

    If all goes well, and the trials confirm it's a winner, it will be some months before your distributor has the parts.

    I wouldn't put my 4" Dash on eBay or sell to the brother-in-law just yet.

    And remember, I now have 6.6kW of juice to finally play with... if I string an electric cord from over here to way over there.

  • @jonno said: Looks tops! Might have to see if anyone wants to buy my 4" so I can upgrade to one of these

    Well it would be the first time i've ever seen a StillDragon unit available second hand.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • I like the 5 stud pattern better than 4 and not as crowded as 6. I think the 5" is going to fill in between the 4 and 6 just fine and it just might be the one and only reason to start seeing used SD 4" used components for sale :D I have the power to drive 6" but not the need. Others may not have enough juice to run 6 and 5 will fit like a glove. I like it :-bd

  • EDIT! even if I get a 5" rig I will most likely keep the 4" so mine prolly not avail for sale as used. I like it too much

  • I recon I could use a few of those 5" CD sections they look awesome. Well done lads.

    Rossco

  • @Law_Of_Ohms pointed out that a 5x4 end cap reducer would be needed and I agree.
    Anything else I'm overlooking?

  • 5 x 3 maybe for those who have a 3" boiler or want to run the 3" 180 and product condenser?

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • I knew at the beginning of this 5" project that adapters and reducers would need to be sorted.
    It's not so bad really, I figure 10 or less reducers should cover adapting up and down.
    Agreed, 5x3 reducer is needed.

    I'm planning to use the 4" super dephlegmator for the trials and, after the holiday, begin work on the 5" dephlem. I plan to make it taller than a 4" regular but shorter then a super.

  • edited January 2014

    Looking good @Lloyd :-bd
    Definitely on a winner with the crystal dragons
    Any progress on the 6" CD?

  • @Lloyd just my 2cents worth, my 4" regular can knock down everything I can throw at it with 11k watts. Just to let you know.

  • How cold is the water your using captain?

  • I use a 1000L reservoir. Reservoir temp start around 22C I run approx 0.3 GPM thru the deph and 0.8 GPM thru the condenser the combined return hot water runs thru an automotive style radiator with a fan and a water mister for cooling before returning to the reservoir. My system is very similar to what @fadge shows in his video but I dont believe he uses a radiator and fan system. Reservoir temps rise to around 27C by the end of a 6 hour run. The fan system helps a whole lot!

  • edited January 2014

    I'd also like to see a bowl reducer to either the regular 4" condensor or super condensor for those with high temp recirc water or mains water. I don't know that the benefits of a whole new condensor line are there?

    I'm guessing that having the super condensor as a large purchace price item may be mitigated a little with a 5" model. Is there a chance to revamp the regular 4" condensor to improve efficiency? More smaller tubes or such?

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • @captainshooch said: My system is very similar to what fadge shows in his video but I dont believe he uses a radiator and fan system. Reservoir temps rise to around 27C by the end of a 6 hour run. The fan system helps a whole lot!

    Correct, I don't use any other cooling, but in our summer the tank warms up a fair bit. We have just had 4 days of mid 40 days, the tank is over 35C starting temp, means no running until temps ease a bit. My last run was back to back stripping running 7200w the regular 2" product condenser kept everything cool, but at the end the pump shut down due to water temp in the tank.

    For the 5" systems if required would 2 x 4" std condensers (one on top of the other), be an option cost wise rather than build or change the existing line up ?

    fadge

  • A pair would absolutely help if needed. We have a couple of pros now that are knocking the shit out of all kinds of boiler input to keep their purity levels up in conjunction with optimal collection speeds.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • I think you'd be better off with a 4" super than 2 standards. Cost and efficiency wise.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • edited January 2014

    @what said: ... Any progress on the 6" CD?

    The 6" sight tower ends, custom gaskets and glass are all done so it's pretty much over until after the holiday here and we can order the parts for the distributors.
    Same with the 5" CD because the custom gaskets arrived this morning and they are great. Just waiting on the plates now - maybe another week or so to arrive.

    We still need to order the custom boxes for the 5 and 6" glass but we're getting pretty good at that now.

    I plan to use the 4" super dephlem for the 5" CD tests but assume that a 5" Dephlem is more appropriate for a 5" column. That removes a reducer and a clamp, and looks neat.

    After using the super 4" dephlem I'm sold that it saves A LOT of water but that is only important to folks where water is scarce, expensive or warm. Anyone with an abundance of cheap, cool water would not get the cost savings benefit by buying a super size.

    I'm very open to adding more and smaller pipes to any of the condensers if you guys want it.

    image

    Shown is 5" and 6" CD parts.

    cd_parts.jpg
    600 x 800 - 76K
  • =D> Dam I hate having to be patient.... Silly question but does the 6" need the support of 8 uprights,? I know copper is expensive but how good would copper end plates look !!!!

  • I think 6 rods on the 6" would be fine, so will change to that on the production pieces.
    Makes for easier identification too, 5 for 5", 6 for 6" and 8 for 8". The 4" can only be made with the small diameter rods so I'll keep making them with 6 holes.

    Sorry, to produce the sight tower ends in copper would be monstrously expensive because of the minimum order needed to get that size pipe made to have the blanks for machining. I suppose someone could copper plate them, perhaps even gold plated?

  • Sometimes a problem does not present itself with 4 or 6 plates but does with more than 6 plates so for the 5" column test I used 8 plates.

    image

    With a boiler charge of exactly 40% ABV low wines and eight plates configured on the first ever 5" Crystal Dragon I have the following to report for the first couple of runs:

    7.2KW (3x 2400w elements)

    6 liters per hour at 95% (~2.5 elements) Clean taste.
    8 liters per hour at 94% (3 elements) Flavor.
    12.5 liters per hour at 90.5% (3 elements) Lots of flavor.

    The ABVs shown are temperature corrected and 12.5L per hour means changing a 600ml collection jar (OK, it's a beer bottle) every 2 minutes and 45 seconds. Makes a fella have to run to take a pee.

    More experimenting and testing is needed but both runs confirmed these amazing numbers. The ABV was stable - meaning it held without decreasing in ABV (the production diminished toward the end of the run but held at the ABV).

    I bought some 12% rice wine today and hope to buy more tomorrow to have enough to see how a "wash" run will work out. I'll dilute the boiler charge to exactly 10% for the test.

    My cooling water is very cold, about 9 C, so it was very hard to dial this puppy in. The slightest movement on the needle valve had a big impact and more than ever I'm beginning to appreciate the need for one of OD's super duper controllers.
    At these power levels (I wanted to wring her out and see what she could do) I had to opt for bigger condensers because a 2" x 510mm SD product shotgun condenser could not keep up with 12.5L per hour collection rate and the distillate was uncomfortably hot. I used the super 4" dephlem and ganged 2 product condensers together and that proved to be overkill at my cold input cooling water temperature, making it very hard to dial in.

    I have plenty of time to play with this new still because of the holiday and I'll keep you guys posted. The production numbers above are not optimized yet because I'm still learning to drive this still. The 5" has a bit of new tech that we've been working on for the bigger columns and we need to get those parts into the distributor's hands before we can show it so the details in the picture above have been smeared. Only a few months so please be patient, it will definitely be worth the wait and I think you will be impressed with the concept.

    In the meantime I'll need to develop and produce a perfectly sized 5" dephlegmator. I know for a fact that overkill here is not a good thing. I'm thinking to have a prototype made 5"x about 240mm tall and test that. Once I have that baseline I can have the production run made a little taller or shorter if necessary.

    I am on a mission to make the modular 5" bubble column the new standard. A 5500w element would power the column but all I can give it is 7200w and it could accept more. But considering everything necessary for a turnkey SD 5" with plates, adapters, reducers, condensers... we're many months away from being able to have the distributors stocked.

    5 incher redacted.jpg
    450 x 800 - 75K
  • The ABVs shown are temperature corrected and 12.5L per hour means changing a 600ml collection jar (OK, it's a beer bottle) every 2 minutes and 45 seconds.

    My maths are pretty dodgy but i make that to be a little over 13l an hour (60/2.75 x .6=). A very impressive takeoff rate and will be incredible when thrown at the bigger columns.

    I'm really glad to see some of this info released and looking forward to the day we can show the world the new system in it's entirety.

    Is there any chance, Uncle that you can do a test run on 2 x 2400 elements (ie 4800 watts) only? This is the setup that is most likely going to apply to the average household here, two 10 amp circuits. Love to see the figures with six plates when this set of experiments are done too.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • @punkin said: ... a test run on 2 x 2400 elements (ie 4800 watts) only? This is the setup that is most likely going to apply to the average household here, two 10 amp circuits...

    I can do that on the next run of 10% boiler charge but it's a lot of work for me to pull out 2 plates since Tan has gone to visit her family during the holiday.
    Imagine me trying to balance those heavy condensers while standing on a chair and nudging the clamp together with my chin... it ain't a pretty picture.

    Yes, I see that now by referring back to my notes. The first run was 600ml every 3 minutes for 12L per hour but the distillate was too hot. Second run I got 600ml every 2 min and 45 sec with cold distillate by ganging another condenser. I could have pushed it much faster but was struggling to adjust the needle valves. With the water so cold and the condensers so oversized the slightest turn on the valve had a big effect. And about that time I switch gears from wanting to see 'how much' to wanting to find 95%.

    Lets see, I have 5 jugs of 12% rice wine, each jug is 4.5L.
    The calcs show that adding 0.2L of water for each of the 12% liters of wine will give 10% boiler charge. Add all 5 jugs (22.5L of 12%) plus 1 jug of water will give a charge of 27L @ 10%. The potential alcohol is 2.7L and I expect to collect about 80% for that (don't the deep tails but do have to collect the heads). Being generous would suggest I'll collect about 2.5L of 95% before making any cuts.
    If I collect at 6 liters per hour... hum, the run will be over very quickly after I begin collecting. Oh, but I'll be using only 2 elements so production will be slower and it would be a shame to take the lovely rice wine all the way to 95%. I'll report back with the results.

  • With a potential of 2.7 liters of alcohol in a 27 liter boiler charge (and the ABV listed on the jugs at 12% cannot be trusted because they are allowed +/- 2% here and with caramel added for color I could not accurately test the ABV of the rice wine feedstock) I collected a total of 1.8 liters before the bottom 4 glasses fogged, confirming what my taste buds were saying, I was into the tails so I shut down. The run was over very quickly. Once stabilized and collecting the run was over in about 30 minutes, I didn't think to time that.

    Collected at 93.6% temperature corrected and at 5.5 liters per hour. 500ml every 5 minutes and thirty seconds. This from a 10% ? boiler charge and using 2x 2400w elements plugged directly into the wall sockets - no controller.

    I'll keep the 500ml middle as its good hearts and recycle the rest into the faints jug, which is growing rapidly now with all this testing.

    Super nice hearts cut, what little there is. I do prefer to do a spirit run on low wines for this very reason.

  • I'm in... @smaug can send me one when ready.... our house sold and the check is in the bank... and I made from the closing to the bank to deposit the check without going by the ferrari dealer... Now if I can get @Lloyd to make me a 3" product condenser with convoluted tubes, I will be all set...

  • Excellent work Lloyd. So we know it will work at a very good clip from wash to final product at very low power levels that almost anyone can throw at it.

    Add more power and it works more efficiently/faster.

    Add a stripped wash instead of plain wash and it's a machine.

    This would match very well with a 120 or 200 l boiler and would make extremely short work of a 120l forty percent charge at high power levels. 8 hours for neutral or 4.5 hours for lots of flavour.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • I am very impressed Lloyd. I too wish to see how she works at the 4 to 5kW level. 6kw @ 240v is about the limit on a conventional domestic supply in the UK, and that seems just fine for a 5 incher. I had been considering a 3 plate plus a packed section, but may have to re-think after seeing your results.

  • A 5" hybrid would be cool. I may need to stock TC pipe in 5"?

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