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Mid Column Sight Glass

Are any of you folks using a sight glass at the mid point in a packed column? Just wondering if it will be a practical method of determining the flood point of the packing.

I suppose you would need a void in the packing by the window. Has anyone tried it? Did it work?

Comments

  • I haven't Myles. But on a side note good to see you here. We welcome your experience and your building and stilling knowledge.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • Myles, I was also wondering what running a packed sight glass would look like

  • Actually I was considering using a mid column site glass with a void in the packing so that you could see the top surface of the lower packed section.

    Someone mentioned wanting to be able to run with a half column length for flavoured product and a full length for neutral. This seemed to be one way to combine those options and to provide a visual indication of a flooded column.

    A lot depends on the packing that was in use at the time.

  • Did a test and a video, the refluxed product flows through the packing unimpeded with all the channeling that you would never expect. Excellent demonstration of how not to do it. It flows in the top and out the bottom of a packed column with NO disbursement what-so-ever. Total waste. I'm at a loss as to why a packed column is efficient in any kind of way.

    Still learning and feeling screwed because for years a tall packed column was supposed to be the nuts, but after testing a tall column, well, its not the nuts.

    Going to rethink the tall and packed column now because 1 + 1 no longer adds up to 2 nuts.

  • @Lloyd, what kind of packing did you use in your tests? I don't believe that the ceramic packing is any near as effective as simple pot scrubbers. Sometimes if I only use one pot scrubber on the bottom there is enough force from the vapour and resistance to flow from the scrubber to push it all the way to the top of the column.

    I also disagree with you. Packed column was never the ultimate. Back in the day on Homedistiller, everyone used to talk about the unattainable bubble plate still. Which until you came along was just a pipe dream. Packed column was simply the best that could be built at the time using readily available materials.

  • Old dog is credited as the first to bring the played column to the hobby world mate. Lloyd was the one who made out modular and obtainable to the test of us with the Bubble Ball.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • @punkin, it's the "obtainable part" that I was referring to.

  • No worries mate. We've come a long edu in a couple of years that's for sure.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • I used SS wool as the packing material, very tightly packed.
    There is a video of it around here somewhere...
    The visual in my head for years was the reflux would somehow spread out inside the column packing and wet and wash the packing but what I observed with the Crystal Dragon with a packed section was that it simply flowed through the packing as though it wasn't there.
    It was not impressive at all.
    I put a 4" filter disk above the packed section but the stream of reflux from the downcomer above that also flowed through the filter disk unimpeded. Was hoping it would break the one large stream into several smaller ones but that didn't work.
    Every time that I try something other than bubble cap plates I learn how much more I like bubble caps.

    I'm thinking the gain that we receive with a hybrid (packed column above a plated) still is simply the gain that we receive from using a bubble plate.

    I do realize that a packed column does work but not in the way that I imagined.

  • @Lloyd, I don't recall seeing a video about that, there was only the In Development - 3" Vodka Rig discussion, which contains some pictures of the packing, but no video.

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  • Hum, I may not have uploaded that one because it was such a disappointment.

  • @Lloyd, even disappointments can be educational. I would love to see the video. I always envisioned the packing as acting like a giant thermal mass that would vapourize the and hold the reflux in suspension before it could reach the boiler and thus allow for a higher concentration of ethanol vapour to be held in the column. This pocket would be replenished both by the reflux from the top and the boiler from the bottom. More packing was more effective because it could hold more heat and thus more vapour. I never really thought that it was holding liquid the way plates do.

  • May have been on the site of somebody that you used to know.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • I have heard it said that if you tune a packed column and a plated column so that they are both running efficiently (implies different vapour speeds for each option) then both columns will end up the same height for the same product ABV output - but that there may be a difference in product rate.

    Sorry that is a long sentence.

    Plated columns are easier to clean. Packed columns have less foaming issues with some washes. Pro's and Con's for both.

    Packed columns were favourite for some time because they were easier to build - not necessarily better - just easier.

    The odd one out these days appears to be SPP.
    In high vapour, low liquid, environment it seems to behave like any other packing. Give it more power, leading to a liquid being held up in the spirals, and it makes it more efficient. Even more power so it is almost flooded and it seems to boil - actually it looks remarkably like a bubble plate in action.

    Is flooded SPP the packed column equivalent of lots of minature bubble plates?

    I am fairly sure about 1 thing though. Set up an SPP filled column so it produces azeotrope and it is very difficult to get anything else out of it. Almost as if it does 1 job very well, but that is all.

    I know I want both a packed and a plated column - and that the packed column will only be used to produce neutral.

    If I want a sipping vodka to drink as opposed to mix, it will be grain based and come from the plated column.

  • edited November 2013

    @thunder88 said: Lloyd, even disappointments can be educational. I would love to see the video.

    @Lloyd's missing video is now online:

    StillDragon - 4" Crystal Dragon Hybrid - Test Run

    In this test run @Lloyd pulls azeotrope from a 4" Crystal Dragon Hybrid configured with a sight tower of 1 meter height, 5 bubble plates, 1 perforated plate, 1 filter disc, 1 packed section with stainless steel wool and the new super dephlegmator.

    http://youtu.be/8txX4gAPurI

    Your Place to be >>> www.StillDragon.org <<< Home of the StillDragon® Community Forum

  • @Lloyd - I notice you have 6 rods, not 4, was this a prototype and you decided to just go with 4?

  • @Lloyd In a fully packed column with only the Dephlem above you would get a better distribution of the reflux in the SS scrubbers. You are dump all the reflux in just 1 spot so it is channeling.

    Now that I see this video an interesting config would be 3 or 4 perf plates at the bottom topped by the rest being bubble plates. Using the high efficiency of the plate area of the perf plate to do the initial concentration and the bubble caps to limit the power requirement.

  • @RedDoorDistillery said: Now that I see this video an interesting config would be 3 or 4 perf plates at the bottom topped by the rest being bubble plates. Using the high efficiency of the plate area of the perf plate to do the initial concentration and the bubble caps to limit the power requirement.

    Interesting idea, I can see the next video in line. How do we call this? A Crystal Dragon Perf Bubble Hybrid?

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  • A flow drilled plate above a packed section would be better as a reflux spreader than the mesh.

    Are you sure there was no extra reflux going on in that packed section? Did you compare output with it and without it? It is a nice looking column though.

  • The stream from the downcomer is comming from quite high in a single stream and has gained some speed once it hits the steel whool. This might explain why it goes straight through.

    What I would be interested to see : a 1m crystal packed only with SS whool (maybe with 1-2 plates at the bottom).

    In 2-3 locations, leave a 2 cm spacing between the packing sections so one can see what is happening.

    There, we could really see how the reflux works

  • Spreading a couple of centimeters of something like rashing rings on tp of the packing as a speader may make some diffence to.

    It's showed me a lot. I have reflux centerers in my packed column as that was always the accepted theory that reflux tries tospread straight to the walls and then channels down the walls. Assuming this came from the Mikes.

    Looks to me like it's doing more harm than good as once the reflux finally starts to maybe spread out a little i am shoving it back into the center again. =;

    That is with structured copper packing though.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • Yes, this was the prototype flanges with 6 holes instead of 4. I've ordered all new ones to be made this way because it adds stability when stacking so many plates together. This all stemmed from my laziness to cut the meter long rods. I had thought that 4 or 6 plates would be all anyone would need but that's a bit short-sighted.

    There was no reason to configure the column this way, I just wanted to see how different components (bubble cap plates, perf plate, packed section and filter disk) worked together and as the most active member of the Loony Bin thread I am uniquely qualified for such crazy experiments 8-}

    As Crystal Dragons breed and reproduce there is no doubt they will open a window into our distilling world, change established notions and help usher in the new best thing - whatever that may be.

    I've longed to put a little fan or propeller on top of the center bubble cap in each section just to see the vapor speed of each section, but this is the wrong thread for that discussion. We have the Loony Bin for such craziness.

  • edited November 2013

    @Lloyd I have just purchased a bunch of wool from the dialler store I will be using my 500mm section from the herms

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8iJ3fDwe-M

    To do a run of bitza mAybe 18 ltrs of uj 10 ltrs of tpw and a bunch of heads and tails Unfortunately I will have to throw it all out as we are moving country I wanna get as close to neautral as possible

    Have you got any further info on this will

    Do I need to treat it in any way before I pack the column?

    I have met a guy here that has worked in a distillery in Scotland so we are going to do a run together

    Really looking forward to it

  • I didn't treat my SS wool in any way except packing it very tightly in the column and running lots of very hot water through it. I did a cleaning run with feints that I had, refluxing as much as possible, and discarded what was collected, washed through the top of the still with cool water with the boiler drain open, reloaded the boiler and was good to go.
    Once I go through this much effort I seldom remove the packing from the pipe, I just run some hot water through it and let it dry for a few days before putting it away.

    I understand about having to discard your booze, none of my friends here appreciates fine swill so if I had to leave I'd have to dump it too. The limit upon entry through immigration and customs is two liters per adult in most of the countries that I've been to but they don't seem to care much if its 5% or 95% AVB. I'm more inclined to transport a much higher than 5% ABV.

  • Many years ago I brought back a bottle of Bacardi 151 from Cyprus and the airline insisted it was transported as DAC. Dangerous Air Cargo.

  • "George T Stagg is one of the whiskeys in the annual Buffalo Trace Distillery Antique Collection. It is a barrel-proof bourbon, and the strength is a little different each year. It ranges from 130-145 proof. The last three years (2005-2007) it has been over 140 proof. These are nicknamed the "Hazmat" releases, because liquors over 140 proof can't be taken on commercial airline flights. "

  • Holy C--P ! Good to know, at least I know my bottles of Bookers @ 127 are good to go!! :D

  • @CothermanDistilling, that's good to know... 139 proof it is then!
    Only ever had one bottle of booze confiscated before, on a domestic flight from Shanghai to Guangzhou about 12 years ago, but was able to claim it again when we returned to Shanghai. It was store bought scotch in my checked luggage, not carry on.

    HazMat is a cool name (for most of my homemade booze) :))

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