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DIY Controller not working?

So I have received the DIY Controller kit, and have assembled it as per the discussion DIY Power Controller and the Econobox Build Instructions (PDF).

I have used 10/3 cord with RV ends. It is wired for 240v with the power coming in from the left side cable and leaving to the element through the right side cable.

image

The white 10 gauge wire is 120v, as is the black 10n gauge wire. The black wires are connected to the SSR number 1 and 2 terminals. The 10 gauge wires green are ground.

image

The pot terminal on the left (as viewed from the top where the knob goes) connects to the SSR terminal 4. The pot terminal in the middle connects to the SSR terminal 3.

image

Now the problem.......
The controller does not seem to control the amperage, or heat of the 5500w element. No matter which way I turn the knob, full counter clockwise or full clockwise, the element seems to be full power on. There certainly isn't any "off" or "no heat" position to the knob / controller, and no "simmer" setting that I can detect. The 5 gallons of water in the 58l keg heats up fast to boiling at any setting.

I have just built the 2" boka still and I was doing the vinegar / water cleaning run. There was no way to tame the heat of the element and reduce the rapid boiling going on in the keg, except for unplugging the power from the wall.........then the boiling stopped immediately, as in right now! That is also how I know it is not even close to being able simmer the 5 gallons of water in the keg the way it is now. I can't imagine trying to do my first stripping run with 5500w full tilt at this point let alone refluxing.

Since I have taken the pics, I have added a ground wire to the pot ground terminal and grounded the pot to the SSR ground terminal thinking that may make a difference. I tried to do a cleaning run with straight water with the same result.......rapid boiling that the controller would not tame. The condenser cooling water flow was almost at 100 percent volume to condense the boiling vapor, and the heated water was coming out at 85 deg C.

I am at a loss to know what is wrong here? I have never assembled / used a SSR controller before (I am not new to home electronics projects), so hopefully there is something obviously wrong / missed to you guys that I am over looking. All connections are tight.

Thanks for your thoughts.

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Comments

  • wiring looks good to me.

    do you own a multimeter ?

  • yep, a cheap made in china one.

  • Nothing inherently wrong with cheap and made in China. :))

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • @punkin said: Nothing inherently wrong with cheap and made in China. :))

    except you just look at the tips on the ends of the leads and they fall off, lol.

  • NOT PLUGGED INTO POWER.....

    On resistance setting, put your multimeter probes across 3 and 4

    Make sure it reading from 0 to ~500k ohm as you adjust the pot.

  • Disconnect from power.... disconnect one of the resistor terminals 3&4, and plug into power... if it heats, your SSR is bad... if it doesn't, your resistor is shorted.... These things are rugged, but like you heart, they don't like 240V or excessive current put at them the wrong way... I have toasted a few SSR's building control panels, several were from a bad element that was shorted in the middle and I did not have a circuit breaker that was lower or near the SSR rated power... (60A breaker in electrical panel will not protect a 25A SSR if the element shorts and wants 50-60A...) sometimes they toasted open, sometimes they toasted full-on...

  • edited October 2013

    Thank you for the trouble shooting tips. I have to go to work today, will test it as asked later this evening.

    I am running the 5500w element on my double 30 amp breaker clothes dryer circuit. On the end of the long 10 /3 cord, I have wired a dryer plug. I will double check this wiring connection too to make sure there is no short.......pretty sure there ain't but I will look. I didn't know that an element could / would short? The breaker has not kicked off yet, and I have not had a short that I know of since assembling the parts and plugging in to power for the first time.

    @CothermanDistilling said: disconnect one of the resistor terminals 3&4, and plug into power

    Just to reaffirm exactly what you mean...... take ONE wire off terminal 3 OR 4 on the SSR, and plug into power........correct?

  • it has to have a load on it i think

  • I don't actually know which way it works (I have never measured it) but I think if there is max resistance on the resistor terminals then the SSR is switched off, and as you reduce the resistance with the pot it starts to conduct.

    If that is correct with no pot connected (max resistance) it should be switched off. Can anyone confirm?

  • edited October 2013

    You should consult a qualified electrician not take electrical advice from the internet. We recommend these kits are assembled by qualified electricians and inspected before use.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • If you disconnect one of the terminals 3&4 (or disconnect both, it has the same effect), it is no more dangerous than if the pot were to burn out, which the manufacturer would have to allow for, but like @punkin said... you should consult an electrician if you are not sure if an action you are about to take is 100% safe...

  • edited October 2013

    I am a dyed in the wool DIY-selfer. I build / fix all of my own projects and junk, carpentry, plumbing and all car / truck repairs. I'll get this controller fixed / figured out.

    Been doing some reading and learning more about SSR's.

    HOW TO TEST A SOLID STATE RELAY (PDF)

    I understand the theory of what you are suggesting Cotherman, as per the last paragraph of the PDF above.

    pdf
    pdf
    crydom-techtip-test-solid-state-relay.pdf
    470K
  • The DIY controller has more electronics on the input side than a regular SSR, but the output side is the same...

    You could try a piece of wire for 0 ohms(but you already know this works) and a 250 Ohm resistor of the proper wattage (I am not suggesting you do this, but I would try a 1/4watt one for a test, but not production.. worst case is I would see it getting warm/hot/smoking, and unplug the power, but I seriously doubt it will get more than just warm..)

    best way to test is to buy another SSR and pot, you will want a spare anyway...

  • edited October 2013

    @CothermanDistilling said: best way to test is to buy another SSR and pot, you will want a spare anyway...

    Funny you should mention this.
    I had already ordered a spare SSR and pot from Larry a week ago, before I ever began wiring this one up. I was thinking the spare parts would be good to have on hand, for later on down the road sort of thing....... I just wasn't expecting failure of the pot or SSR upon assembling it / them and before having it / them function as designed even just once.

  • Nobody has said that it has failed mate, just that may be the issue.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • A lot of hints have already been given in this discussion, the DIY Controller Kit consists of just a few parts, so it should not be too complex to narrow down the error.

    Please always keep the possible risks in mind when dealing with electricity, which makes me quote our disclaimer from our Terms of Service:

    DISCLAIMER: Any advice given here reflects the personal opinion of individual forum members, which may not necessarily be correct and is meant to be addressed to someone who exactly knows and understands how to perform the necessary tasks. If in any doubt please seek help from a professional. Neither the StillDragon User Group nor the StillDragon Distribution Network or their individual members can be held responsible in case you encounter problems, damages or injuries when following any given instructions.

    Your Place to be >>> www.StillDragon.org <<< Home of the StillDragon® Community Forum

  • Agreed, the value of everyones time in this thread could have paid for several spares by now...

  • I am very thank full for all of the advice and tips given here. I understand the terms and disclalimer here........the person you see in the mirror is responsible for your safety!

    Nor am I knocking SD products or service. I am very happy with the other SD products I have received, and the shipping / communication of, has been top notch!

    This is a mere $25 hiccup in the building process.........

  • @Spokerider, please keep us updated, of course everybody wants to know now what the problem was once you have resolved it.

    Your Place to be >>> www.StillDragon.org <<< Home of the StillDragon® Community Forum

  • edited October 2013

    Finally had a chance to trouble shoot...... The resistance of the pot is only 39 ohms between the left and middle terminals. 173 ohms between right and middle terminals. The keg element does not heat when plugged in, [ through the SSR ] with the pot terminals disconnected from the SSR terminals 3 and 4. Looks like the SSR is good and the pot is done.

    Hopefully the local electrical parts outlet stocks 500k 2watt pots.

  • now measure the pot without it connected to the SSR

  • oh, and i use a 0.5W pot, shhh, dont tell anyone

  • OK folks I received an answer from United Automation. These are current devices. As the potentiometer resistance decreases the output power increases. Max resistance switches off the device.
    Most of these have a trigger threshold. You need to adjust the pot until the device switches on, but you can then back off the pot to reduce the output current if you wish to run at a lower setting.

  • @Law_Of_Ohms said: now measure the pot without it connected to the SSR

    That was.

  • @Law_Of_Ohms said: oh, and i use a 0.5W pot, shhh, dont tell anyone

    1/2 watt pot works just fine with this particular SSR? What is the difference between a 2w and a .5w pot in our application?

  • Durability and heat. Probably more of an issue at full power. Remember the pot is live and it is carrying the trigger current for the DIAC that in turn fires the TRIAC. A higher output current also means more current flowing through the pot.

    It is standard practice to overspec components for reliability and longer life.

  • Well, I ordered some 500K 2 watt pots from Digi-Key........the only electronics parts store in my city had none.

    When I built the controller with short cables on each end, the intent was to run the power cord directly to the element for keg heat up, and then place the controller in-line, once heater control was required.....thus not pulling the max 23 amps of the 5500 w element through the SSR.

  • Yes sir, running my 5500 watt element full tilt with a ssr@220/240 volts,the max I get is 4864 watts give or take on a 30 amp breaker dedicated to my still

    It is what you make it!

  • edited October 2013

    The new pot from Digi-Key came fast! Rotary Potentiometer - Linear - RV4NAYSD504A

    I tested it first with the multimeter, and it was bang on 505k. Soldered the #3 and #4 SSR wires in place, and fired it up. Yup, she works well. I could hear the element heat-up when turning the pot clockwise and then hear the heating water sound diminish as I turned the pot back counterclockwise. BUT, I did receive a light shock to the finger tips from the pot shaft when I went to turn it counterclockwise to turn the element amps down / off. With the pot turned all of the way counterclockwise, no more shock from touching the shaft.

    Since this pot does not have a ground terminal on it, in which to ground the pot to the SSR ground terminal, I'm thinking that it is normal to feel some current flowing through the pot housing and shaft when the controller is in "full on" 23 amps? Dunno what I felt....2 watts?

    The wring is unchanged, just like in the pics above. I need to get a larger / different knob to fit the larger 1/4" pot shaft.

  • @Myles said: Durability and heat. Probably more of an issue at full power. Remember the pot is live and it is carrying the trigger current for the DIAC that in turn fires the TRIAC. A higher output current also means more current flowing through the pot.

    It is standard practice to overspec components for reliability and longer life.

    Myles, what is the trigger current of the pot?

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