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Does anyone have 6" Bubble Cap Production Rates?

I'm interested in learning approximate production rates for the 6" Bubblecap column relative to the 4" models. The 4" data is pretty abundant, it's the 6" data I'm having difficulty finding. I'm trying to see how much more quickly a given run would finish if done in a 6" column rather than a 4" in the interest of shortening run time.

Comments

  • How much boiler heating power do you have available?

  • The 4" has 5 caps and 1 D/C per plate while the 6" has 9 caps and 3 D/C's and the 8" has 15 caps and 4 D/C's.

    I could be way off base, but I assumed each successive size would be around (or maybe just short of) twice the speed - given sufficient boiler heat input.

  • 10 liters per hour is a good approximation. But you have to be able to put a commensurate amount of vapor into suspension.

    To echo LoO,,,how much power are you throwing at your boiler

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • I was considering putting the 6" column on the SD 380 L boiler. The SD website shows the boiler has 5 element ports which at 5,500 watts each comes to 27,500 watts. If running all 5 elements off of 240v power I believe I would require around 115 amps of breakers or 125a @ 220v. Is this correct?

    I've read that Red Door completed his first run (~850 L charge) through the 8" crystal dragon on 22,000 watts, but it's set up with perforated plates. Also, cooling was an issue.

  • Each 5500w element draws 22.4amps but when you setup the circuits you need to oversize the breaker by 20% (26.88amps) and then round up to the next breaker. So each element should be connected to a 30amp breaker. So... 5x 30amp breakers 150amps total breakers. Real draw would only be about112amps.

    It is nice to have all that power during heat up so it does not take forever to get up to temp. It takes about 3 hrs for me to bring 850L up to temp with 8x 5500w elements. For you 380L should take about 2hrs with 5x 5500w elements.

    During the run with a 6" bubble plate I would estimate the required wattage would be between 9,000 and 11,000 watts. So only 1.75 - 2 elements.

    Setup just 1 element on a variac controller that way you have unlimited control between 0 - 27,500 watts. If you max out the variac element turn on another full element at the breaker and turn you variac all the way down to 0.

    Right now the sweet spot on the 8" perf plate seams to be about 27,500 watts. But perf plates require a lot more power to keep the plates from dumping. Bubble plates don't have that problem.

  • Great answer RDD. Fyi citrus can bring the 380 to temp in 1.5 hours with 18000 watts.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • Bringing 380L of liquid to the boiling point using 18 kW should be possible with low wines or very warm Wash and with minimal heat losses.

    Bringing 880L of 10% wash to the boiling point in 3h should only require 24 kW of effective power. You have that much heat losses?

  • Sorry I used the 850L volume that he referenced. In real life my charge is actually 950L (250Gallons). Starting at 55F (12.7C) takes about 2.5 hrs to get to 199F (93C). Single wall stainless non insulated boiler. So I do lose a bit of heat. Also it is normally about 65F in the room my still is in so I bleed heat.

    Really depends on starting Temp as well as ambient temp of the room the boiler is in as well as insulation ect...

    @Smaug Citrus must not be doing a full 100g/380L charge or his starting temps are very high around 85F to get to 199 in 1.5hrs. By my calculations 100G x 18000w 85F Start 199F End would require 100% efficiency to heat up in 1.5hrs.

  • I'll see if I can confirm.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • edited October 2013

    @RedDoorDistillery The boiler charge changes a lot. Ethanol has less than half the volumetric heat capacity of water, therefore, in first approximation, a 25% low wines charge should get from 20C to 87C in 85 min using 18kW. If the boiler is insulated, the starting temp a bit higher or the low wines a bit stronger, 1.5h seems plausible. The other options are that the volume is actually lower than 380L, that the power is higher (some places have significantly higher voltage than the nominal) or that this happens in an area where the atmospheric pressure is lower :D

  • Or he's in southern Florida where the weather is hot all the time. 70F ambient temps there and folks start reaching for a jacket.

    @gixxerpilot750 we have more and more of the 6" columns being sold lately - hoping some of them report back with running data. We waited a long time to get someone like @RedDoorDistillery to give hard data for an 8" column.
    The six inch is not as popular as the eight inch. 6" is too big for hobbyists and perhaps too small for craft distilleries?

  • Bout a 15% boiler charge of 90 gallons at room temp,,,,,though room temp in the distillery will put a bead of sweat across your brow.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • Yup. As I suspected higher proof so lower boil point and not a full 100gallons and Florida room temp 80F. 1.5 hours would be about right with 18,000 Watts. Going from 80F - 194F would be about 93% heat efficacy in 1.5hrs.

  • Now I rarely try to bring my charge up fast anymore. I normally turn on just 1 element 5500w around 7pm the night before. When I get back to the shop at 8am the next morning I am sitting at about 180F. I kick on the rest of my elements all 44,000watts and bring it up to the 199F range in about 20mins or so and then reduce back to 22,000 - 27,000watts for my run with the 8" crystal. Column is up and stabilizing by 8:30am vs 11am.

  • edited October 2013

    I run on gas, two burners, about 7kw worth each. I heat up 75L of 10% wash between the two kegs in about a half hour. At boil I switch off the burner under the thumper and run only on the boiler. It takes 45min to an hour to complete the run. I get 93% on three plates, and 95% on 5 plates.

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  • edited October 2013

    Hey that's neat!

    I never saw anyone propose to put a column on a thumper before. Guess i'm out of the loop. Is that a triple wall liebig too?

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  • @punkin said: Hey that's neat!

    I never saw anyone propose to put a column on a thumper before. Guess i'm out of the loop. Is that a triple wall liebig too?

    Has been Myles plan for a while.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • It's hard to keep up with Myles's plans. :))

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • @punkin said: It's hard to keep up with Myles's plans. :))

    Which one's? :))

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • @punkin said: Hey that's neat!

    I never saw anyone propose to put a column on a thumper before. Guess i'm out of the loop. Is that a triple wall liebig too?

    I just really wanted a way to do a whole 80L fermenter in one go, and kegs are a lot cheaper than 100L boilers. It was probably inspired by Myles' plan, I built it at about the same time his plans came out.

    It is a triple wall liebig. I was getting vapor blowing through the 3/4" when running hot in potstill mode, adding the 1/2" coolant tube through the middle solved that. Unfortunately I dont have any good photos of it.

  • :)) I am due to be back in my workshop in just over 2 weeks, and the integrated still I am building is going to be completed. Hope to have some data for that column over thumper build for you shortly afterwards. It is only a 3" SPP but it should be interesting.

    After that it will be back to work on my own gear. :bz

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