Converting starches to Sugars without buying chemicals

I ask this because by necessity I dont have easy access to amylase or other starch conversion additives. This is still kind of mystery to me as I have not experimented with starch based ferments.

Typically I have available to me things like native Dalo/Taro, Cassava, Plantains, Bananas, Potatoes, Breadfruit, and Rice. I know that boiling or cooking can liberate some sugars, but what things can I add to convert the starches that I might find at a standard grocery store or might come from a plant or be made from things in nature or might be found outside brewery supply.

these solutions dont have to be 100% solutions either, I'm fine with something like a 70% conversion or even a 50% conversion if it's cost effective for me.

I'm open to all sorts of ideas about anything you may know about. dont assume I know this already please.

What can be made to work?

Comments

  • Well you already know how they convert the starch to make Kava? :))

    Just get 50 guys chewing and spitting and you're right B-)

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  • On a more serious note i'm pretty sure i read somewhere that sweet potato (Kumera) has enough amylase to convert at least itself.

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  • edited May 2017

    Never guys @punkin . It was the village maidens or young children. Supposedly less bacteria. You never know where an older bloke - or active woman's - mouth has been.

    Will the chemist shop enzyme work for you. Or ebay.

  • edited May 2017

    Pint is the guy for enzymes mate, but i won't be importing and exporting them. He ships all over the world and gets excellent feedback.

    EnzyMash Enzymes for Mashing

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  • Sure, grow your own koji.

    But I'm going to tell you that it's way easier, faster and cheaper (if you value your time) to import alpha and gluco amylase.

  • try deltazymes in melbourne. mike's a top guy

  • The dietary supplement Beano has lots of enzymes that function the same and can be bought almost anywhere. I read in a moonshine book it works almost as well as proper enzymes. Might not be as good but at least you can get it.

  • Beano is too expensive, has too little enzyme, and is not the proper enzyme, as it's alpha-galactosidase and not amylo-glucosidase (glucoamylase).

  • @punkin said: On a more serious note i'm pretty sure i read somewhere that sweet potato (Kumera) has enough amylase to convert at least itself.

    Kumala (sweet potato) might be an option. It's seasonal but might be worth a try. Are the enzymes destroyed during the cooking process?

    @GD50 yeah the chemist/pharmacy would be fine. thats where I get my Mag Sulfate.

    I'm not against importing chemicals, but the process is onerous. Basically it's this:

    • first I have to get approval to send funds outside Fiji
    • then I wire funds to a US bank so I can use a credit card to purchase (lose 5% in exchange)
    • then buy and have it shipped
    • If I cant get it shipped direct to fiji (more often than not) then I pay to have it re-shipped to me from US to me here in FJ. (Assuming a theoretical $10 shipping charge to US address, reshipment is roughly 4x that to FJ. +$40)
    • WAIT 6-8 weeks
    • if package is under 20KG it can process thru customs locally.
    • If package is ALSO over $180usd value (value = total of item cost + insurance costs + shipping costs) then I will wait another few days for clearance and pay 9% VAT and minimum of 5% duty (+14%)
    • upon arrival I have to then report to the bank with the original invoice and prove that I purchased something with the money I sent out, or it is a violation of currency control laws.

    TLDR = -If i buy the $165 enzyme kit Punkin lists the ultimate effect is basically this:
    -$165 + $20 ship + $80 reship = $265 + ( 5% exchange + 3% card fee) = $286.20 +(VAt and duty 14%) = $326.68usd + 8 weeks lag and risk of shipping loss with no ability to return product or seek refund or costs for damages.

    So, while not impossible it's best to order in larger quantities at low prices, or find work arounds using commonly available items, techniques or other methods. There is also avoiding, lying and cheating your way thru the legal/bank process as much as possible which can reduce the costs by as much as 15%.

    I'm in NO way against using commercial enzymes, but you can see that there is strong incentive to discover how they are made and just make the things myself from scratch. this is pretty much how we do a lot of things here.

  • @grim said: Sure, grow your own koji.

    But I'm going to tell you that it's way easier, faster and cheaper (if you value your time) to import alpha and gluco amylase.

    isnt Koji accessible from some chinese rice balls or something? the process looked pretty detailed.

  • I guess that counts Fijians out from using eBay and PayPal then

  • @GD50 said: I guess that counts Fijians out from using eBay and PayPal then

    really hard to get a credit or even visa debit card here. they are really worried about foriegn exchange reserve levels and thus control it very closely.

    The developed nation policies WRT money, really keeps developing nations from ever being more than beggars. only when they start implementing free market policies like hong kong, singapore, Macau etc. do we see them succeed.

  • Commercial enzymes are grown from cultures on bacteria. You got no chance. Malt is the next best thing. Sorry but i don't know the details on the Kumera.

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  • I've read that sweet potato self-converts at about 180F/82C, but not sure how fast. It's how Okinawans used to make sweet potato "brandy".

    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

    my book, Making Fine Spirits

  • How did old school potato vodka get fermented?

    I have seen plantain convert sugars when boiled.

    Maybe these are only partial conversions?

    Does anyone have a link to some solid recipies for this sort of thing?

    Thanks @zymurgybob and @punkin these are the sorts of leads I need.

  • Buying malt or figuring out how to malt would be the next best bet then

  • Old school potato vodka still used malt for conversion, new school potato vodka uses enzymes.

  • I read somewhere that ginger has a high amount of alpha amylayse but I have no experience to back that up. I would think you would have some native gingers that you could try with.

  • edited May 2017

    @zymurgybob That reminds me. The Japanese do make a particularly nice Imo Shochu from sweet potato. Only 25% and just looked it up . Hanamikura Hanakon Shochu was a ripper. Quite easy to get in Australia. No idea how it is made and probably worth investigating.

    Might even buy a bottle next time i buy another amazing japanese knife from Chefs Armoury in Sydney. Great gear. Their Mirin (for cooking and drinking ) is also something else and not that expensive. All my knives are Japanese mostly damascas but some blue steel and i recently did a traditional Japanese knife sharpening course with them. They know their stuff. Have not seen any Japanese whiskeys in their range which is a bit strange or I just missed it.

  • @grim was reading up on Shochu and some of the grain brews are done with the Koji you mentioned. Was not up on that one but it sure adds another element to the game. Particularly the old black Koji. Wonder if you could get some starter.

  • edited May 2017

    There are a number of Japanese Koji manufacturers that will export. It's prepackaged and ready to go like a dry yeast - no screwing around.

    It's not cheap though - I was quoted more than $100usd for 140 grams including shipping for a ginjo strain. This was from a premier supplier of beverage Koji.

  • Have heard chatter on the forums about being able to buy the rice balls already infected with the koji at japanese grocery stores cheap.

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  • edited May 2017

    Sources of Amylase-Producing Bacteria (PDF)

    If you're feeling bold, you could try rolling your own enzyme-making bacteria. Sounds like the authors did an advanced version of a sourdough starter.

  • I forget about rice. We have a plant or two on this island, I wonder if they have waste product I could get cheap.

    I heard the rice ball thing too. Might be worth a try.

  • According to this study ginger has a suppressing effect on amylase activity.

    Amylase and Glucosidase Enzyme Inhibitory Activity of Ginger (Zingiber officinale Roscoe) an in vitro Study (PDF)

    So ginger would seem to be out?

    The white part of banana peels are supposed to have amylase of some sort tho.

  • Isn't this question one of the central points in the 5,000+ year human history of making alcohol?

    It's the very reason we have beer and sake, pulque and others.

    I would be very surprised if there was a novel way to saccharify starches that didn't come out of a lab. If it exists, pretty sure it would have been discovered and industrialized.

  • I'm really thinking this is more of a "lost technology" problem actually.

  • edited May 2017

    Given the demand for fuel ethanol and the incredible potential of low cost cellulosic ethanol, I'd bet you have dozens of ethnobotanists. Microbiologists, geneticists scouring the far reaches of the globe for solutions.

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