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Roller Mill Advice

edited November 2014 in Accessories

I would like to brew some beer and also try some all grain ferments for whiskey.

I am about to get one of these Kitchen type roller mill locally, for about the same price that is quoted on the page.

If I can have a suitable grist of about 2Kg (half a pound?) in less than 30 mins, I think that would be ok for my current needs.

Obviously this one is a bit like a toy, in comparison with the ones that are available for homebrewing.

I figured the grinding types would not be that good and and the electrical ones like coffee grinders are not that suitable either, thus I am inclined to get roller ones.

Should I get a three roll mill or two rolls?

I can get one bought from USA (given that it won't be too heavy to carry it in a luggage back down here) and if you can show me where to buy a suitable/reliable one, that would be nice.

Thanks

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Comments

  • Hi Sadi,

    I reckon for a similar price or better you could get a roller mill made for brewing. Can't help with where to get 1 in the US - sorry.

    However if you don't do much milling consider the carona / pocket type they are cheaper & I know a lot of guys have used em for brewing for a long time. They do corn too if you were interested in a bourbon mash.

    FYI 2kg is about 4 pound (2.2lb to the kg)

    croz

  • On the cheap side coffee grinders use a blade. A higher quality has a burr grinder. Both are of no value for brewing. As far as setting up for distilling I dont know, but can only imagine both forms would be horrendously slow, so a roller mill would be ideal. I use a 3 roller monster mill for my brewing. It is designed for malt barley and has served me perfectly for many years and can tear through 2kg in moments with a 1/2hp motor. When it comes to wheat some folks do a few passes closing the gap to get where they want, and I can imagine that something like corn would be similar. But as far as I know, everyone from serious homebrewers to commercial uses roller mills.

  • edited December 2014

    I recently bought one of these here in Australia to replace my Crankenstein which kept breaking shafts.

    MillMaster Grain Mill @ MashMaster

    AQs far as i could find it's the only mill on a homebrew scale that has both an adjustable roller on both sides and a geared rather than lazy roller.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • @punkin thanks for the timely post, I was looking at buying a Crankenstein, which model did you have? I was looking at these: Commercial Brew Mills @ Crankandstein

    I'll check out your mill.

    Cheers,

    Mech.

  • edited December 2014

    Brewing Mill A2 @ Crankandstein

    Had the 2A. It may have kept snapping from my dodgy mounting or the heavy duty drill i had driving it, may not have been the mill. @olddog has it now and i'm assuming he's put it's third drive shaft in there.

    The millmaster is a great unit, the hopper is too small to be useful for anything, and it needs a high torque motor, i tried three garage door motors that a heap of people use and they wouldn't turn it loaded. I ended up with the motion dynamics brewers special motor and it's very good.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • edited December 2014

    I now use a Schmidling maltmill. Geated, case hardened rollers + corn option (wider gap). Very happy camper.

  • So the gear drive is an option and the adjustable rollers are as well? Do you have the adjustable rollers? Is it a detent system or do you have to undo bolts?

    Looks a very impressive unit Croz, i do remember seeing them when i was in the market.

    Just got the 20l hopper for mine figured out using their model too ^:)^

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • edited December 2014

    Thanks for the info mates.

    @crozdog this is what I was hoping for. Thanks. ^:)^

    It was an interesting site to read aswell.

    I think I will go for the adjustable one with corn option.

    I will contact the seller and pass the info to my brother, then I have to wait patiently.

    Thanks again. :)

    Cheers.

  • edited December 2014

    @punkin & @Sadi, my unit has an adjustable roller. Adjusting involves loosening a grub screw with an allen key then turning the offset bushing the roller end is mounted in to the desirted gap then tightening the grub screw. NB it only adjusts at 1 end. I have no issue with this as i get a variety of crush from cracked to fine.

    The schmidling site discusses how the 1 sided adjustment is not an issue some make it out to be: Brewing Application Notes, P.2 Read GRAINMILL THROUGHPUT to see how quick you can process your grain. Trust me its quick. Even running through twice takes me less than 1 pass using my old barley crusher - & it wouldn't wven look at corn.

  • It was a good read, informative. Thanks @crozdog

    I emailed the guy and explained my situation, now awaiting his reply. His website suggests that he is very experienced on these things.

  • hey punkin have you tried to mill corn with the mashmaster or does anyone know if it will handle cracked corn

  • edited December 2014

    First, whole dry corn is evil.

    Corn takes me 2 passes on my 2" Crankandstein mill, first is always full open at .150", then reducing slightly from there depending on how the subsequent pass went. First pass is a coarse crack, second pass is a fine crack, and I can take it down to nearly flour in 3 passes. I'd imagine with geared rollers you would get a slightly better performance as the biggest issue with corn is that it can skittle across the roller gap. Bigger the roller, or the better the grab, the less skittling, but finding anything bigger than 2" is nearly impossible, and nobody makes a geared second roller here in the states. I'd love to get my hands on something like a 6" diameter roller, it would put a hammer mill to shame.

    If you are doing any corn at all, I'd recommend going with a big motor, 3/4hp. You might be able to get by with 1/2hp, but it may not be able to start with a full hopper.

    Like I said, corn is evil. Everything else is so easy to mill, wheat, rye, barley, whatever, runs through like a stick of butter. Corn? It's like pouring rocks in the hopper.

  • @kezza said: hey punkin have you tried to mill corn with the mashmaster or does anyone know if it will handle cracked corn

    Chews through cracked corn, i did a test for someone with the same question a couple weeks ago. There's photos and a detailed report here somewhere.

    I haven't tried whole corn in it (aside from my cracked corn having plenty of whole pieces) as i don't have any, but i think it would do it fine in a couple passes.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • Great posts guys!.

    So...I'm looking to grab the Schmidling Maltmill
    And team it with the drive @punkin used: Home Brewer Special! Worm Drive Motor + DC Speed Controller! @ Motion Dynamics

    Does that drive look like it'll be up to the challenge?

    Cheers,

    Mech.

  • I was looking at that motor package when it came out to drive my schmidling - but picked up a chain driven paper shredder at the right price then spent more than the package modifying it!! haha but I know it'll crush pretty well everything!

    i reckon you'll love it.

  • edited December 2014

    I have been using a cheap Millars mill. When set to the narrowest gap, it does a fantastic job. Here is a sample of 50# rye I milled today. Broken up nice, big enough as to not pass thru the mesh on a BIAB bag yet small enough to ease hydrolyzing and converting without too much flower.

    image

    image

    image

    image

    Guess I need to set the date on my camera =))

    1.jpg
    800 x 600 - 101K
    2.jpg
    800 x 600 - 141K
    3.jpg
    800 x 600 - 128K
    4.jpg
    800 x 600 - 70K
  • edited January 2017

    Bumping this thread looking for opinions.

    I'm between the crankandstein and the kegco 3-roller mill. Both come with similar paper stats but the crankandstein comes with a significant higher price tag (~$100 USD more).

    Does anyone has any experience with the kegco in terms of durability? Is the crankandstein worth a 67% price premium considering ambitious homebrewing and potentially initial 100g mashing load for a commercial distillery?

  • I had a crankenstein, it broke the main shaft three times. Home use only.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • Kegco is newer and similar to the Cereal Killer. They (beverage factory) have been expanding into homebrew market. I'm happy with everything I've got from them and my Cereal Killer, but I'd personally go for a longer lasting one. These are entry level home use at best.

    Edited to add I just noticed that is the theee roller which is nothing like I have. I can offer this though, if it breaks on you, I know where their located and can leave a flaming bag of poop on their doorstep for you.

  • @punkin said: I had a crankenstein, it broke the main shaft three times. Home use only.

    I have a 3D that was a prototype from back when they first started making adjustable 3-roller mills... never broke a shaft... what the hell you crushing, rocks?

    Me thinks if you are breaking a shaft, you have the belt too damn tight! (coming from a guy who has had a motorcycle output shaft bearing pop a ball out on my foot at a stoplight from having the chain too tight.....

  • edited January 2017

    Crankandstein 220C had a good run for me, I actually bought a second one to have a spare set of frames and rollers. Wedded to it now, because it's built into a large freestanding mill with hopper. No other mill is going to fit the geometry.

    Just wagering a guess, we must have done about 25,000-30,000 pounds of grain and malt through the mill in the past year. We did break a shaft and had to have a machine shop drill it out, insert a pin, and re-lathe it down. Just to get an idea of how much use, the rollers actually need to be re-knurled, as they are basically smooth bumps now.

    I may send the new roller out to get heat treated, but my only concern is that if it wears again, it's going to be trash and I believe it's impossible to re-knurl a heat treated roller, so maybe I just find a local guy that can cut the knurling.

    You can do the ROI yourself - you can probably get a year of commercial out of it with fairly regular heavy use, or maybe 2-3 years on a lighter load. I definitely believe that milling unmalted grains (like rye) were really rough on the mill. We put corn and cracked corn through a few times, but only if our farmer wasn't watching his hammer mill and gave us really coarse crack.

    Hammer mill is on the list of things to buy, but is going to run at least $5k for something decent. Looking at my own math, I can afford to burn through a few crankandsteins in heavy use and have my farmer keep cracking for me.

    For hobby use? We beat the shit out of this, I don't see how it wouldn't last a decade under hobby use.

  • I bought my 320D in '04, and just bought a 220C a bit over a year ago just for juniper since it can have a nice wide gap... I doubt juniper will hurt it int he next 100 years, LOL...

  • edited January 2017

    If I was doing just malt, I don't think I'd hesitate to use something like the big 328D. In fact, I'd spring for the extra gear-drive rollers too. I'd wager a guess that the gear drive rollers run smoother overall too.

  • I take it back, at least 35,000 pounds actually through the rollers. Oats, unmalted rye, whole corn, all needed to go through twice, with reducing gap, didn't account for that.

  • Thanks for the feedback. So far is a 2-1 endorsement for crankenstein.

    @SoCalBrewing thanks for the offer :))

  • Thoughts on 1.5" vs 2" roller diameter?

  • Suspect the bigger rollers are less prone to tearing husk as the angles are more conducive to pinching and grabbing, vs skeetering at the gap.

    We see this with corn and the hard unmalt rye with our 2". I've had the mill running full speed and nothing coming through as the right sized pieces of grain lined up to block the gap.

    Now I know why the commercial roller mills are running 8" rollers, bigger diameters are better.

  • edited January 2017

    @captainshooch said: have been using a cheap Millars mill. When set to the narrowest gap, it does a fantastic job. Here is a sample of 50# rye I milled today. Broken up nice, big enough as to not pass thru the mesh on a BIAB bag yet small enough to ease hydrolyzing and converting without too much flower.

    Cheers for that Captain. We can only get JW grains here and I have been having trouble with the variability of grain size. I'll adjust the roller gap and see if that helps. Rossco

  • At that price difference, I decided to give kegco a chance. Shipping today. Will see how it's going

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