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My VM Still - Advice

edited December 2016 in Usage

Hi,

I recently made a VM config.
50L milk can boiler with 4500w element.
3x 4" T's on the boiler with in each T a 4" pro cap plate.
On that there is a 1m 2" packed culumn (ceramic rings).
Then a 3-way valve with deph on top and a thermo T + 1" gate valve at the side.
at the end a condensor and collector.

I did a test run, but I only get between 92 and 94% alc.
element at 1500w and collecting a smal stream at 1L/h
cooling out between 20 and 24°C

Can someone give me advice?
Do I have to lower or up the power?
Do I have to collect slower or faster?

Comments

  • edited December 2016

    You probably wont get much more power into a 2" column without it flooding.
    Take off rate is dependent on how rough you want the product to be. What are you trying to make?
    Sound like lots of valving too. A VM doesn't really have a deph that needs controlling, maybe a photo would help??
    Normally you would pipe the two condensers up in series from the product to the reflux. @ 1500W you'd probably set it to 1 or 2 l/min and forget about it for the rest of the run. All the control is in the vapour valve.

  • @jacksonbrown said: You probably wont get much more power into a 2" column without it flooding.
    Take off rate is dependent on how rough you want the product to be. What are you trying to make?
    Sound like lots of valving too. A VM doesn't really have a deph that needs controlling, maybe a photo would help??
    Normally you would pipe the two condensers up in series from the product to the reflux. @ 1500W you'd probably set it to 1 or 2 l/min and forget about it for the rest of the run. All the control is in the vapour valve.

    I'm trying to make a neutral of 96%. The 3-way valve is just a T-valve that's all open, I just change it when i'm cleaning. and then there's just the gate valve for regulating the output of the VM. The deph is just a small condensor on top of the column to make the reflux running. The deph is always cooling at same rate, no further controlling. no flooding up to 2000w, but then I get some little condens at the output of the deph-top.

  • You're probably better off swapping those plates for a second or even third packed section.
    Purity will go up and so can the take off rate.

  • @jacksonbrown said: You're probably better off swapping those plates for a second or even third packed section.
    Purity will go up and so can the take off rate.

    So without a second packed section and just a little bit of trimming in power and valving, I won't get higher than 94% ?

  • You might but you'll need to drop your take rate even further to achieve it.
    Stainless scrubbers are worth a shot too. Pack them to the right density and they should work better than the rings.
    You can even pack the tees

  • @jacksonbrown said: You might but you'll need to drop your take rate even further to achieve it.
    Stainless scrubbers are worth a shot too. Pack them to the right density and they should work better than the rings.
    You can even pack the tees

    Gonna try to slower the take off and put some copper scrubbers in the T's. Maybe in the future scrubbers ipo the rings. Thx for this advice.

  • You should get 1.2l hr from a 2 inch column at 2400 watts. Should not flood with mesh packing. You need 1200 to 1500mm packed section. If you swap out the 2 inch section for 4 inch youll up the collection rate to6l hr or so i reckon.

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  • Lose the ceramic rings and replace them with stainless steel pot scrubbers. One bubble plate (torpedo) beneath the packed section (on the boiler connection) will help stabilze the column flow and give you a window to see into. Configured this way you should be able to get azeotrope at around 1L/hr or so without flooding.

    Leastways that's what my VM column does for me.

    I'm more like I am now than I was before.

  • With a single 500mm packed section?? wow

  • As you are laying numbers and i just a few moments ago finished a stripping run i would say from my 5" in pot mode with 50l boiler and i used all elements 8400 watts i was pulling 14l per hour and using 3.5l/min thru 3" product condenser and definitely could have used less.

    Got heaps of strip now so rebuild up to spirit mode and do a spirit run. Actually might do three so i can try the difference of spirit thru 12 plates and redo again to have some 24 plate vodka.

  • My pot gets 2.2kW through the whole run which gives just over 100ml/min at the start of the run and under 50ml/min at the end.
    With a reflux set up I would send at least 90% of that back to the column for neutral.
    With a 2" column my amphora packing can take 2.2kW but the SSP shits itself well under half that.

  • 92-94% at 1 litre/ hour from a 2" system witn a 1 metre column packed with ceramic rings is a pretty good result on a first VM run IMHO. Swap the ceramic rings for SS pot scrubbers and you should get greater reflux and higher purity but possibly an increased risk of flooding if you pack too tightly. The three way valve sounds like a vapour restriction point you don't really need. Research CCVMs for a simpler VM design option which I have found to be easier to run than a valved VM

  • edited December 2016

    @jacksonbrown said: With a single 500mm packed section?? wow

    48" (1220mm) of SS pot scrubber packed 2" (50mm) copper column sitting on a SD torpedo.

    Low wines diluted to 20% produce around 1.2L/hr.

    Straight-up WPOSW wash produces around 750mL/hr

    Both at azeotrope.

    I cut the 48" tube in half to allow insertion of the scrubbers without over-packing. I rejoined the two 2 ft. sections with a brass union. I built my VM column in 2009, while SD was still in its bubble-ball infancy. I added the torpedo a few years later at the suggestion of @Minime (notorious VM column distiller).

    I'm more like I am now than I was before.

  • Thx for all the advice guys! I will take this info to my future tests.

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