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Looking for a simple, yet tasty all grain recipe

edited November 2016 in Recipes

Good afternoon everyone.

To start, I have never distilled anything, we need to get that in the open to start. In fact, I do not even have my still put together yet, but it will be soon. My brother and I will be doing the stainless welding of the ferrules (4 inch and 1.5 inch) and the coupler (.5 inch) over Thanksgiving. then I will build the rest of the copper pot head and Liebig shortly after.

Now for some back ground - I can brew beer, I can brew really good beer and have been for almost 10 years, all that to say is I can, and have the ability to mash. My brewing is built around 2x 15 gallon stock pots that can be run as a cross circulating (Brewtus 20) or a RIMS. I can do volumes between 4-13 gallons.

Ok, to the heart of my question and search, mainly because I like to chew on information...and also because I like to spread my expenses out over as long a time as I can, I am looking for a tasty all grain mash to use some where around the 4th to 5th run of my pot still. The first runs, after the cleaning and sac run will be UJ so I can learn.

I like whisky: Buffalo Trace, Knob Creek, Leopold Brothers, The Balvenie Doublewood 12 Year Old Single Malt whiskey (my fav) I do not like: Jameson

I tried to look, but could not find a simple, yet proven, AG, so now I am asking for help. Attached is a photo of the brew setup

Thanks for the read.....

image

Comments

  • edited November 2016

    Just brew an all malt beer, but don't bother hopping. Mash a touch cooler than usual and ferment it dry. Don't be afraid to ferment warmer than you would beer.

    You are good to go. Since you can brew, cut your teeth on malt before you try to wrangle corn. Go with a nice ale yeast too. It's that easy for a great malt Whiskey, everything else is oak and time.

    I too am a major fan of doublewood.

  • Wheat is a great adjunct, you can use wheat malt but can also mash any wheat at mash temp without the cereal mash step. Wheat whiskey is a very nice spirit, so a mixture of wheat and barley malt would be good in my opinion.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • So I am really sure that I can't mash anything over about 25-30% of corn or wheat with the 6 row, but I cold get away with that I think, especially if I grind it kinda loose.

    So either.... (13 gallons mash water / 10 gallons in to ferm)

    20 pounds 6 Row 5 pounds flaked corn OG:1.063 FG 1.0 ABV 8.3%

    or

    20 pounds 6 Row 5 pounds Red Wheat OG:1.062 FG 1.0 ABV 8%

    or

    20 pounds 6 Row 3 pounds flaked corn 3 pounds Red Wheat OG:1.065 FG 1.0 ABV 9%

    Think I cold do either one of those

    T

  • @punkin said: Wheat is a great adjunct, you can use wheat malt but can also mash any wheat at mash temp without the cereal mash step. Wheat whiskey is a very nice spirit, so a mixture of wheat and barley malt would be good in my opinion.

    I love brewing with wheat, only ever used Red, need to try Midnight...

    T

  • edited November 2016

    I use Midnight Wheat in my Cascadian IPA. Works very well in giving that roast barley colour without the burnt flavours. It means that the black colour beer gives your mouth an expectation that is not delivered and that is one of the beauties of that brew.

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    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • Holy Crap, 22 gal batch???? WTF do you brew on?

    T

  • Home built setup, 3v. 120l cooler for a mash tun with 100l hlt and 160l boil pot.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • Is that the same as choc wheat? I really like that grain as well.

  • No they are different.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • Judging by your beer equipment you will be ahead of most in mashing for whiskey.

  • edited November 2016

    @FloridaCracker said: Judging by your beer equipment you will be ahead of most in mashing for whiskey.

    Agree, knowing is half the battle.

    Most new distillers coming here are more along the lines of, "I don't understand, I threw some sh!t in a bucket and cooked the hell out of it and added some more sh!t and mixed it and put it in a bucket for 2 months and it smells awful, how many gallons of vodka will I get out of this 3 gallon batch?"

  • I think my local has some smoked malt as well, Cherry wood IIRC

    Also need to look at some notes, but I think I can pull more wheat, but not much more corn

  • edited November 2016

    Just keep in mind, the typical levels of adjunct in beer will not yield similar flavor profile modifications in the distillate. Small amounts of most any specialty malt would largely get lost. I think the exceptions to that are darkly roasted or smoked malts, where those pyrolysis compounds will come over in the distillate, and obviously some alternative grains.

    For example, in our corn whiskey, we add 5% rye to the mash bill to add just a little hint of complexity. At the 5% mark, it is incredibly subtle. You would never have any idea there was any rye content.

    Even the difference between red and white wheat - incredibly subtle in the distillate. In a typical wheated bourbon mash bill, I would say it would be nearly impossible to differentiate in a blind taste test.

    In our alternative grain bourbons, we push the alternative grain to 48% of the mash bill - these are oat and millet. It really hits a point at which they really shine and contribute substantially, while still being recognizable as bourbon. It really takes this much to make a significant flavor contribution.

    Other thing to consider is that the oak will whack subtlety. For a bourbon on new charred oak, after a year it'll be even more difficult. On a malt whiskey with used cooperage, those subtle flavors will hold out a bit longer.

  • edited November 2016

    Thanks!!!

    Great info.

    It is the corn that worries me the most, and of course is what I want to use the most of. My set up is electric, so it could be problematic to do a large cereal mash.

    On a different note, I can't say how pleased I have been with my ordering process from SD!!! 4 inch and 1.5 inch ferrules and coupler should be at the Fab shop today!!!!!

    T

  • edited November 2016

    Heavy corn, wheat and rye (high glucans), or large amounts of unmalted/nontraditional grain like Millet, Oat, Amaranth, Quinoa, etc is where traditional brewing methods start to become challenging.

    For example, we started mashing a 100% unmalted rye using a step mash combined with enzyme for saccharification and viscosity reduction.

    Even with doing a glucan rest, and using anti-visco enzymes, there is no way, no way, ever, that any lautering would ever happen. It's nearly impossible to take a starting gravity. Adding rice hulls to this would be a complete disaster. So, we don't bother trying to do it, and take the grain through fermentation and into distillation, where separation becomes significantly easier. Verboten in beer, but (we think) a major benefit in whiskey.

    Not saying this to sound discouraging, just making the point at which traditional brewing techniques begin to be an impediment in certain styles, where usually it's a massive benefit.

    That's why I suggested just rolling your first few mashes and distillations with straight malt washes. Pretty sure once you get behind the wheel and get the hang of it, you'll probably be making fantastic spirits pretty quickly. Brewing is that much of an advantage.

    100% 2 Row with an ale yeast fermented about 78F. That's a great recipe right there.

  • I only recently started using added specialty grains for whiskies, and we are presently using about 8% each of honey malt and crystal 90 in our poitin mash. I'm surprised and pleased by how many tasters of that white whisky detect and comment on a sweet note and also the caramel note. I'm heartened and will keep those specialty grains in the mash.

    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

    my book, Making Fine Spirits

  • 100% value added here Thanks So Much

  • +1 @grim, can't really add anything to that. Adjuncts at high ratios just don't get along with lauter tuns.

    +1 @zymurgybob, I've been using Caravienne for years. Everyone almost always comments on the "warmth" of the sweetness from that malt. It really makes for a great addition.

    @Txbrewing, as long as you have a high ratio of malts with high diastatic, you can distill out most brew recipes you have (minus hops of course, for now). Here's one of my favorites to mess around with (you did ask for a recipe after all)...

    55% 2-row 30% Rye malt 15% specialty... get weird, or just use more rye malt

    2.5lb/gal water, I like to push my yeast so I've gone higher on the grain.

    I use either white labs american or tennessee whiskey yeasts but there's plenty to choose from so why limit yourself.

  • Mmmm White Labs Tennessee Whiskey.

  • edited November 2016

    Fun thread, so I'll keep it going. One fun area for you to explore. Skip the boil and let a little bit of that lacto take a turn.

    Evolution of the Lactic Acid Bacterial Community during Malt Whisky Fermentation: a Polyphasic Study

    The wort is not boiled, as it is in a brewery in order to retain the activity of the soluble enzymes from the malt during the fermentation and to maximize alcohol yield. Consequently, bacteria from the malt that can survive mashing enter the fermentation, resulting in a mixed yeast-bacterial fermentation (11, 19). If large numbers of lactobacilli enter the fermentation (more than 106 cells/ml), they compete for nutrients with yeast cells and reduce the ethanol yield (9, 11, 20). In well-operated distilleries, however, the lactobacilli flourish after the yeast cells have reached stationary phase and grow on residual nutrients and autolysing yeast cells. This “late lactic fermentation” is encouraged by many distillers, since it is thought to have a beneficial effect on the flavor of the final spirit (13, 24).

  • edited November 2016

    So yeah, sometimes what's good for beer, is bad for whiskey, and the other way around:

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  • I'm also playing around with letting the mash cook and ferment in the tun, then lauter before going in the pot.

  • I always thought it was easier that way.

  • flavor is much more and better but it prevents you from doing back to back mashing

  • Question

    Could I mash barley to develop the sugar and then use it instead of water on corn for a UJSM?

  • sure.

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  • @punkin said: Wheat is a great adjunct, you can use wheat malt but can also mash any wheat at mash temp without the cereal mash step. Wheat whiskey is a very nice spirit, so a mixture of wheat and barley malt would be good in my opinion.

    Punkin and others...lol This is the grain bill for my American Wheat Beer, and might be the first thing i run through the still. I might replace the CaraVienne with a darker crystal

    FERMENTABLES: 10 lb - American - Red Wheat (50%) 8 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (40%) 2 lb - Belgian - CaraVienne (10%)

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