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Vodka with a 4 Plate 4" Crystal Dragon

I'm looking at taking the plunge and start with some quality equipment so any failures will be the brewer's problem; I.e. can't blame the equipment.

I'm looking at some of the discussions on vodka I'm getting the impression that if I start with a 4 plate 4 inch set-up I might be disappointed.

People are talking about several more plates and outrageously tall towers.

Can't I just strip a bunch of fairly good batches and then maximize reflux on the composite volume's final run or follow-up with multi-distillations of my final blend?

Did the cost of what I need for a good vodka machine, never mind recipes and practice, just get outrageous?

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Comments

  • Hobby or commercial?

  • For hobby guys the popular option is a 6 plate with a 510mm extension.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • When I make "vodka" aka neutral for my wife this is how I do it and I get a pretty damn clean, tasteless product which is what she wants because she always mixes it.

    I have a 5", 4 plate ProCap system with a 6" packed section on the top filled with SS scrubbies. The most important step in my opinion is your wash and how you do it. I use the TPW using Red Star bakers yeast. After the wash finishes fermenting, I let it sit at least another 2 weeks to let the yeast settle out. Then I "splash" from one bucket to another to release CO2 and let it sit overnight. You would be surprised at how a fairly clear wash can still have stuff that will settle out. The idea is to get every bit of murk out BEFORE you even try to strip it. Murk=flavor

    Then strip as fast as you want with your plates removed. I usually stop at 20%

    Take the low wines and add 2 tablespoons of sodium bicarb to every 6 gallons. Let it sit at least 2 days. Reinstall your plates (clean ones) and packing. Do a spirit run after leaving your column in full reflux for a few minutes to compress heads/fores. Don't leave in reflux too long or esterfication will work against you. I toss all heads until there is very little smell/taste left and then stop when the tails start. I use the eye test for heads and it works good for me although some say it is bunk. Maybe I have super-sensitive eyeballs. Cover jars and let air out for at least 2 days.

    Take what you have, which is mostly hearts and run again, this time a little slower as there will be less shit to remove. This time take heads until almost zero smell/taste and stop when your alcometer starts to drop or you smell tails coming on. Cover and air for a day.

    This next step is optional but I always then run product through my US machine for about 30 minutes. You can then store it or cut it to your liking. I then put it back in the US after it is cut with distilled water and run it again. This might be overkill but the stuff I get after only 3 runs (12 plate equivalent) is about as clean as you can get for a hobby guy. Zero smell and damn near zero taste. I'm sure that some of the pro guys here could detect minute smells or flavors but I guarantee you that nobody else will.

    I am very conservative on cuts in that I toss more than most in order to have a top notch product. Since I am just distilling for a few and have a 5" column I can get away with tossing more.

  • Alright @FloridaCracker put me out of my misery and explain what your US machine is.

  • It's a commercial/personal ultrasound device. Mine holds 6 liters and I think cost about $125. I haven't seen any definitive info that shows it to be an absolute improvement however I have done my own personal trials and absolutely would not waste my time if I didn't think it was an improvement. Check here for a thread that I posted on and also on other sites. Odin did the first trials that I saw.

  • edited June 2016

    The amount of change we're talking about with ultrasound is very small in comparison to just about any other potential change when operating the still.

  • ^^True, but after everything is said and done it is one more tool in the toolshed. I have yet to hear from someone who used it and didn't get some kind of positive result.

  • Thanks, still don't understand the term US though, is it for a purification or filtration function? Looks like I should just keep after the multiple runs. This is of course a Hobby.

  • Thanks, still don't understand the term US though, is it for a purification or filtration function? Looks like I should just keep after the multiple runs. This is of course a Hobby.

  • punkin, where should the 510 mm extension go exactly? Above/below/middle of the column?

  • Above the plates and below the reflux condensor. US = ultra sound.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • @Buzz US=ultrasonic

    @zzyzx I'm no expert, but I put the packed section above the plates. I've not seen anyone go the other way round.

  • So how does this order sound; boiler, four plates, extension with copper mesh/rasching rings/copper mesh, reflux condenser, then peel off for the product condenser and parrot. Should I have something upstream of the plates?

  • Sounds just fine

    If it's not clean enough after a run for you, water it back down to 40% or less with good clean water and run it again. You could water it back down to 20% and get better seperation seeing as you are not going for abv increase at that point

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • Thanks, never heard of adding water before subsequent runs. Does that change the wastage or make more product available?

  • @Buzz said: Thanks, never heard of adding water before subsequent runs. Does that change the wastage or make more product available?

    Cleans it up. Contributes to a bit more product loss.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • So packed column above the plates? Is that correct or does it matter?

  • Some would say that the system behaves better when configured that way.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • edited July 2016

    Thanks, I'm sure if I just plunge in and do it I'll figure out what works with whatever equipment I choose. Just trying to avoid any stupid mistakes if possible. I'm seeing a lot of bad press on Turbo Yeast. Is the straight Red Star with tomato paste really the way to go. I read good stuff about the ECs for Vodka/Neutral product. Is this just another thing to experiment with?

  • Everyone has an opinion on turbo yeasts and most aren't good. If you are after QUALITY don't use it. If you don't give a shit how your hooch tastes, by all means, go for it.

    As far as stupid mistakes, you will make some. We all have and that's what makes us better distillers. You can read all the online stuff that you want (and I would recommend it) but until you jump in you won't really learn anything.

    Good luck and there are a lot of good people here who will help if they can.

  • Watering down to 20% or so makes it easier for the ethanol/water bond to be broken. Therefore a cleaner distillation. It also makes it safer by raising the flash point.

    EC1116/red pastuer is in my opinion a much superior yeast to 1118. I have not had good results from 1118 and i have heard many reports of it being fussy, slow, a slut to temperature and stalling.
    In saying that, many people like it.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • 1118 was slow for me compared to bakers yeast,,,err if I distilled. But I dont...

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • edited June 2016

    Too easy - Ec1118 is the king of clean. Ferment at 78f. I can ferment 1.06 to .996 in 4 days.

  • Yep, it's all fuel for me, just trying to keep the engine in clean tasty spirits. Low sulfites and an efficient, complete and clean fermentation will keep my operation as fuel efficient as possible; the environment will like it too.

  • @punkin said: Watering down to 20% or so makes it easier for the ethanol/water bond to be broken.

    I thought it was a bit the opposite. That's why the tails are held back better (all the other alcohols etc.)

  • Additional benefit of the watering down is that the element will stay covered during your run ;)

    On the yeast - To me, that's somewhat up to preference and what you're trying to make. For me, I'm trying not to stress is too much ( = high ABV in short time ). Pretty much settled now on washes 5-12% ABV. The higher you go, the longer you have to wait...

  • Thanks for the input. Time is not an issue for me. I'm happy to wait longer. From what I see a week should be more that enough. Just looking for a good ferment and a clean product for distillation.

  • Hey mr @punkin when do you head off. Have fun. Just reading this thread again and it is a bit hard for us 5 inch guys to put a packed section above the plates and before the r/c when you don't have 5 inch spools. A job for you in China.

  • Just get one made. Punkin always has the best prices but it's just some tube and two ferrules.

  • You'll get a custom length to suit too.

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