How Dirty is Dirty?

I am a "commercial" brewer (new to distilling) and have been spending quite a bit of time reading this and other forums, lots of recipes and methods, text books, etc, and am about to start distilling some of the grains that we grew to fill some new barrels that I purchased - and am at a bit of a standstill. I know that commercial bourbon is usually put up a bit "dirty" especially when expected to age for several years, and that the resulting complexity and flavor is enhanced by allowing a bit of the heads to be included, at the expense of a headache for over indulgence. I used to think it was just the industry being cost effective, but I am starting to realize that often they are doing it for flavor. The other day I was really blown away when I purchased a bottle of Michter's Small Batch Bourbon.

I poured a few oz into a rather large brandy snifter, at a rather warm room temp, and BAM - first thing I get is a facefull of acetone - something akin to huffing model glue. The bourbon was rich and flavorful, but I was really amazed at how much acetone was in the nose. Granted, acetone is very volatile, and at room temp in a large glass, I'm sure that it's effects are multiplied, but my thought is that if they are letting this much of the fores in, it has to be full of Methanol...

I don't know much about Michter's, except that I think it is contracted, and likely distilled through a continuous? My first thought was that either they aren't taking any of the heads out, or that they are really smearing the fores/heads, and using a lot of them in the final product.

I'm planning on running three pro-cap plates to produce my whiskeys. Even at "full" reflux, I still get a "bleed through" lyne arm temp of around 166 F producing a nominal trickle of product, so I know that I am definitely smearing some heads when running, so the difficult choice is when to start saving it.

I read the guide to making cuts, but I'm not sure that what I would save would end up being a rich complex whiskey after 2-4 years in the barrel. I think that I would end up with cleaner, more boring whiskey, which leads me to believe that I have to put some up dirtier than I would normally choose to and just keep tasting and testing, and taking notes. Either that or start out making a cleaner single malt or pot-still type whiskey until I get more daring to venture into the world of "dirty" bourbon whiskeys....

Comments

  • Hello & welcome.

    When talking about blending "dirty" I'm always referring to have tails in my blend, not heads. For me the best way to manage heads (a) 100% reflux for some time and (b) slowly - as in couting drops - taking off the first 1/2 jar. That pretty much gets the acetone close to zero.

    When you're talking about reflux, you're saying "full" - what do you mean with that?

  • My "full" reflux is running 3 elements on and running the dephleg water on full. I get just a tiny, tiny stream off my 8 inch column. I suppose it isn't full reflux by definition since a tiny bit of product is escaping. I guess what I was saying is that any flow through the dephleg is getting me a lyne arm temp of166 F which to me means that I am smearing the heads. I can't get lower unless I stop the flow completely. This compared to my 4 inch, 16 plate rig in which my Lyne arm temps will match the specific alcohol evaporation temps to within a degree, which is pretty much what my K-type thermocouples are probably accurate to.

  • I'm in agreeance that tails are where you should be looking. Very late heads can give some sweetness to a finished product, but hidden deep in the tails there is usually one or two jars that are complex and wonderful. You need to go deeper than you'd think to find them and they are not always in the same spot or indeed even there at all.

    But when you do find them you'll know.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • To me, great tails come after the "oily" tails.

    DAD... not yours.. ah, hell... I don't know...

  • Interesting. So, there is very little benefit to including any heads in the barrel? Then why do these commerical bourbons with a fairly significant price tag have noticeable fores in the nose?

    To further this question, are there any commercial operations using continuous stills that are producing bourbon on the first run, or are they usually/always just used as a stripper?

    If producing bourbon on the first run, would it be safe to say that it would be somewhat difficult to strip all of the fores/heads out on the first run in a continuous, and therefore a bit would always get through to the final product?

    Just trying to wrap my head around why this expensive bourbon would have noticeable acetone in the nose, aside from someone not following SOP's correctly, unless it was done on purpose...

  • Well if they are pot stilling the cuts are going to be very broad compared to using a plated column for one thing.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • edited June 2016

    Right on, good question.

    @FA20driver said: I poured a few oz into a rather large brandy snifter, at a rather warm room temp, and BAM - first thing I get is a facefull of acetone - something akin to huffing model glue. The bourbon was rich and flavorful, but I was really amazed at how much acetone was in the nose. Granted, acetone is very volatile, and at room temp in a large glass, I'm sure that it's effects are multiplied, but my thought is that if they are letting this much of the fores in, it has to be full of Methanol...

    The acetone odor in the nose is most likely ethyl acetate and not acetone (although it's possible there is acetone). Ethyl acetate is one of the most common esters in heads (and spirits in general), and does have a very sharp solventy odor like acetone or glue. Most analytical studies of spirits (GC, etc) will show this to be the case.

    Ethyl acetate actually increases during barrel aging. There is a good old paper on this:

    Liebman and Rosenblatt, "Changes in whiskey While Maturing," Industiral and Engineering Chemistry, 35(9):994-1002, 1943.

    As well as a number of more recent ones - but in short, oxidation of ethanol and acetic acids in the wood itself will both work to increase levels.

    This is one of the major maturation reactions, and is related to acetaldehyde - whose fruity odor will add to the perception of "nail polish remover". But the key thing is, it's going to increase through aging, not decrease.

    There is very little, if any, methanol in grain spirits, especially US commercial whiskies - if you aren't using fruit, methanol is largely not a problem (pectins - the real cause).

    You are right though, in your thought that some percentage of heads or late heads is typical in some spirits. I can't drink brandy anymore, for this exact reason, Even trying good brandies, I wonder if they even bothered to make a heads cut at all. However, without this, it's not characteristic of the class.

  • edited June 2016

    Someone swore to me that Buffalo Trace White Dog Mash # 1 is essentially the exact same whiskey that goes into the barrel to produce Buffalo Trace.

  • Grim have you had a good pisco yet?

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

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