Element Sizes

So heres a question I should probably know the answer to but don't... why do people limit themselves to 4.5-5.5kW output models? Why not go higher?

I feel like it may have something to do with available power of the facility or the cost of all the other components to make a controller but really don't know, hence asking you lot.

FYI, I ask this cos I'm STILL in the build phase and want to put together a 6x8kW element control system. Good times.

Also, hello all! (been a minute since I've been here)

Comments

  • Off the cuff comment but I am sure someone can give a more precise and better answer;

    1 Higher Amps and larger circuit breaker size
    2 Excessive wire size
    3 Not as readily available for when it requires replacement

  • well the first and third Im personally not concerned about, I kinda figured those in to "reasons why not" list. Wiring I didn't think about, but I guess that falls into my bigger/more expensive everything. Im no electrical engineer so I guess a better question would be is what I want to make possible (within reasonable size/price) cos I don't see why not

  • Startin from scratch? Do it how you want.
    It's usually existing circuits that govern your options.

  • whole facility is from scratch so yeah zero restriction

  • edited June 2016

    I think because most of this was driven by the re-use of conventional water heater elements in home DIY/homebrew settings, so everything followed those limitations.

    Honestly I agree, scrap the whole 5.5kw thing for the larger setups - a 50 amp 240v line isn't all that complex - and would provide enough headroom for 10kw. Or straight to 3 phase options.

    8kw elements use a different thread size, correct? Or are entirely non-standard? Anyway, they are certainly harder to procure.

    The wire sizing and SSR sizing is moot if you are pulling from scratch in a commercial setting. Upsizing by 1 wire gauge isn't going to move the needle much.

    Or just go straight to ansi/iso/flange mount, skip the whole thread/triclamp flange.

  • edited June 2016

    +1 Grim

    The 5500 watt thing is for those first few customers that have a shoe string budget Luke. Readily available, low cost elements are easy for the average person.

    We have always maintained that if the customer identifies their preferred heating element, we can build the the kettle accordingly. Most customers have no Idea however. Many distillers have not even secured a building before they shop for the still.

    The boys up in Jackson Hole are using a set of 3 phase elements. Their building is new and have plenty plenty power too.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • edited June 2016

    Apologies for the possible newbie post, but wouldn't multiple 5.5KW elements be

    1. easier/cheaper (yes you would use more breakers in a std. 200 amp panel)
    2. provide more surface area for heat transfer?
  • The cost of Watlow or Chromalox ANSI flange process elements would scare the hell out of a lot of people.

    Especially if your baseline is a mass produced water heater element.

  • edited June 2016

    @grim said: The cost of Watlow or Chromalox ANSI flange process elements would scare the hell out of a lot of people.

    Especially if your baseline is a mass produced water heater element.

    100% again.

    The StillDragon model was set up to help eliminate some of that financial barrier to entry.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • edited June 2016

    Just for your own edification, Citrus Distiller's has about 15,000 bottles moved out of his distillery this past year. All produced with only 4500 watt elements!!

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • edited June 2016

    Couldn't you guys just weld on 10 triclamp flanges or something that is a multiple of 3 so that the 3 phase folks can run a balanced load - 9 or 12.

    Parallel 3 per phase on the 9 elements. Use a 70 or 80 amp SSR per 3 element group. Tie them all together with a single control.

  • Yes. This past year we have been adding ports in multiples of 3. Now all tanks are set up in multiples of three except for the 70 liter BM.

    Previously, a simple adjustment like that seemed too overwhelming for our,,,,,former associate.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • +1 grim

    I'll offer my experience here with 400amp...the wire, safety switches and panels are exponentially higher in cost.

    A fused safety switch that would have been $150usd for 200amp was $1,000 for 400amp. The fuses were $120 each. The M350 wire was $3.50 a foot. M350 terminal lugs are $12 each. A 400amp main breaker starts around $500usd.

    This was kind of the first step in size that became really commercial. And none of it was off the shelf. Even in a fairly large city I had to order some of it.

    I wouldn't have done it smaller but was surprised by the associated costs.

    Once in the building I split it to two, 200amp panels, for the convenience/cost of getting supplies at a big box store.

    DAD... not yours.. ah, hell... I don't know...

  • edited June 2016

    Regarding breakers in a panel - I would imagine most of you guys are just installing a sub panel and not hauling back all the individual cables to the main. Or you just lucked out with location.

  • these are what i was thinking of using, they fit nicely in the element chamber of the jacket ( the larger SD baine maries have the ports on the bottom instead of encircling the jacket)

    Electric Tankless Water Heater Element 8000 Watts 240 Volts @ iKKYMART

  • Should work just fine.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • yeah I'm pretty sure I asked you way back about the chamber size too and they fit in perfectly

Sign In or Register to comment.