StillDragon® Community Forum

Welcome!

Be part of our community & join our international next generation forum now!

In this Discussion

Foaming and a Burnt Smell on Stripping Run

I was running a stripping run on a 4" dash with one plate put in. I had my controller around 80%. I noticed foam starting to form in the one plate with site glass and turned the power down but the foam went through to the parrot So I then shut it down, pulled the still apart and rinsed it good. When I started it back up I was smelling a burnt smell. My question is, did I try to heat the wash up too fast. Is the burning I smell the foam I created? The product I think has a slight burnt smokey smell maybe taste but is clear maybe it's all in my head because my garage has the smell in it now.... Did I ruin the product. If I cut it with some distilled water and run it again can I get the smokey burnt flavor and smell out of it? Should I just throw it out and start again :-S Thanks for any help. ~X(

«1

Comments

  • edited March 2016

    Wash not finished fermenting and still containing residual sugar in my experience. I found no way to get that ciruit board burnt taste out of the resulting spirit including refluxing to 96.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • Second what Punkin says; the only time I've had that was from residual sugar. I should have known better because the wash was still sweet. Lesson learned for me.

  • edited March 2016

    @punkin that makes sense. I thought maybe that batch didn't covert that well. Is that was causes a lot of the foaming is when you have too many unconverted starches in the wash? Is the only way to check for conversion through an iodine test? @TheMechWarrior thought that maybe I had a harder time squeezing out my grains through a BIAB because I didn't have great conversion, now I'm thinking part of that issue could be bad starch conversion as proof from this foamy smelly, waste of time batch ~X(

  • @FloridaCracker said: Second what Punkin says; the only time I've had that was from residual sugar. I should have known better because the wash was still sweet. Lesson learned for me.

    @FloridaCracker so what should you have done with that wash knowing it was bad conversion? Just threw it away? Do you test for residual starches by iodine?

  • Not sure about the starches. All grain can generally foam anyway, barley is pretty bad for it and oats are worse, but i was talking about converted sugars not being processed by the yeast, either because the ferment had stalled or not run it's course.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • @punkin I understand the difference you and @floridaCracker are talking about. That was bubbled for almost 10-11 days slow but was bubbling. I wonder if starches will burn like that. When I emptied the boiler the element had burnt on sugar or maybe starch either way not good.

  • No worries mate, did you do a hydrometer test before racking to the boiler?

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • @punkin said: No worries mate, did you do a hydrometer test before racking to the boiler?

    No I didn't but I will never skip that step again 8-}

  • Foaming and burn on is a sign of organics within the still. Some distillers aim for a little of this.
    Did you by chance drag over some of the yeast bed?

  • edited April 2016

    @TheMechWarrior said: Foaming and burn on is a sign of organics within the still. Some distillers aim for a little of this. Did you by chance drag over some of the yeast bed?

    Yes I'm sure I had some yeast bed in it. I think the real problem was I never checked to see if the ferment was complete and I had sugars in the wash that burnt.

  • A side note on foaming observation

    I have two elements in my boiler right now, a low density 5500W and a high density 4500W. when i run the 4500 by itself I get cavitation at the element that creates foaming. shutting it off and turning on the 5500 low density element at full power produces no foam.

    I'm of the opinion that high density or standard heating elements might be a contributing factor in foaming. I'm in the process of switching to all low density elements in the hopes I can increase vapor speeds slightly.

  • edited April 2016

    Just googled low density heating element and came across the Camco offering...

    ULWD stands for 'Ultra Low Watt Density' which means that the heat produced per square inch along the element is very low (50W per square inch or 7.8W per square centimeter). This greatly reduces the chance of scorching or caramelizing the boiling wort. ULWD elements will also not break immediately if dry fired (fired when not immersed in water).

    So if my simplicity of understanding is right, .... the low density means larger heating area by comparison for the amount of KW heating.

    Something to think about going forward with regards to the correct element selection.

  • I can get foaming during a stripping run with my 5500 ULWD element if I don't use an anti-foam agent. Gets worse the longer the run goes on.

  • Watt density doesn't have as much to do with foaming as it does not scorching the solids in the still boiler... I have found that running a 5 element 380L boiler, that too much 'and sometimes too little power' can cause foaming... too little does not 'cause foaming', but can reduce it's re-uptake into the still charge... you want the elements to create a rolling action that re-envelopes the foam into the liquid..

    I used to scoop and scoop and scoop foam... no longer... I just have warm-up of the boiler to a certain temp (195f for 7% beer in one case) under full power(5 elements full on), then go down to a single element at 50% until the vapor temp before the U hits 170, which may take an hour, then go to 2 elements half power.. I then can manually set it to two elements at full power or 3 elements at full power, but I rarely do that with malt wash. That is pot still mode, if you are running plates above beer, you will have to be more careful... you can stir/agitate/pump, you can get an expansion ball, you can try fermcap

    I have been using the same 5 5500W elements for 2+ years and just clean them by removing them from the kettle and heating them at 50% or so until they have a very dim, dull red glow, then let them cool completely, tap them against something and the ash falls off, and sometimes wire brushing them a little...

  • Good answers, thanks...

    DAD... not yours.. ah, hell... I don't know...

  • @CothermanDistilling I'm guessing you have the ULWD ripple?

  • yes, camco 5500w ripple..... 5 in the 380L, one in a sankey, and 2 spares in packaging still

  • Same here in 50L boiler. No issues w/ scorching so far and I ran a purified peach wash already. Main issue was foaming on some AG's but that seems to be managed pretty decently with a couple of drops of Anti-Foam

  • edited May 2016

    I never have any foaming issues - I wonder if it's the agitator - re: cothermans suggestion about needing to maintain a rolling boil. Have a jug of fermcap s that was barely ever used.

  • Show-off ;)

    I think the agitator helps a lot. Are you doing protein rest as well?

  • Nope - but do regularly use beta glucanase, which I think helps.

  • Does it have any effect on flavour?

  • Anti-foam? Not that I've noticed

  • No Beta. Does it produce different fermentables or cut snot?

  • edited May 2016

    No - beta glucanase is already found in malted grain, it's critical to the malting process, but only a bit makes it through kilning - which is why additions can be beneficial. A protein rest can release the little left, but if you are using unmalted grain, it's usually not enough - or if you are cereal mashing - it's logistically tough to do a rest.

  • edited May 2016

    me. Feeling a little overwhelmed in the beginners section....is there a lower level I can be moved to?

    Thanks for the information you all share with us.

  • Just had a phone call with my element manufacturer regarding an Ultra Low Density heating element.

    I am not sure if I am missing the boat or whether there is a better solution.

    For a 1.1m diamter vessel this is no problem for a 5.5KW total combined ULD element. He would for a total 5.5KW element, take 3 seperate lines / cores each at 3.6m long, fold it back in half and make it wavy so as to reduce the total imersed length.

    To do the same for a 50L keg boiler he reckoned that the most that you would achieve in the same method of construction is about 2.2 KW.

    The tube would be SS as well as the boss.

    Any ideas on this.

  • edited June 2016

    What's the watt density and maximum surface temperature?

    I'm finding that these descriptions of "Low Watt Density" or "Ultra Low Watt Density" are pretty much worthless, because they aren't consistent and those words don't actually correspond with some kind of agreed ranges.

  • For a 1.1m boiler, get 4 off the shelf long(24"?) 6kw fold back elements, (or 4 5500w camco) wire pairs in series, then wire the 2 pairs in parallel, you are back to the original wattage of a single element, 6kw...

  • edited June 2016

    I mean, does it matter?

    We are talking 60-65w/sq.in. for a standard watt density heater, and 50w/sq.in. for an ultra low watt density heater.

    Is there any real difference at those levels? Comparatively, a steam jacket is probably running around 10w/sq.in.

    Doubling the number of elements and running them at half voltage makes a bigger/material impact compared with going low vs ultra low (which is nearly no difference at all).

Sign In or Register to comment.