How to add a Packed Section?

Hi,

I would like to add a packed section to my column (with copper mesh) order to increase the contact time of my distillate with the copper.

I am thinking of putting in a straight pipe section above my 7 bubble cap trays filled with the copper mesh.

Is it necessary to have a sight glass in the packed section? I am of the opinion that I will see any flooding or foaming from my trays below the packed section and do not require sight glass.

I would appreciate any advice.

Comments

  • I don't even have my bubble plate column yet, but at some point down the line I also might add a 510mm section of 4 inch above the plates and fill it with stainless mesh (for neutral) so if somebody who has done it could chime in with advice? Stainless mesh is cheaper than copper and I figure there is enough copper in the plates and caps to fix the sulphur.

    I think it will be incredibly hard to flood a 4 inch packed section above the plates... How many watts can you throw at it on your setup?

  • @mark85 said: I think it will be incredibly hard to flood a 4 inch packed section above the plates...

    You'd think so but it is highly dependent on the packing. With the vapour pushing up, the reflux can sit on top the packing quite easily if it's a bit too densely packed.

  • @jacksonbrown said: You'd think so but it is highly dependent on the packing. With the vapour pushing up, the reflux can sit on top the packing quite easily if it's a bit too densely packed.

    Interesting, I would have imagined channeling to be the major issue using mesh packing in a wider pipe, but I see where you are coming from.

    It might be useful or interesting to see the reflux in the packing through a glass column but it's probably not necessary, there will be other signs of flooding if it's happening like: changes in flow at product condenser, noise from the column, a reduction or halt in the amount of reflux dripping from the dephlegmator to the top plate.

  • @mark85 said: I think it will be incredibly hard to flood a 4 inch packed section above the plates... How many watts can you throw at it on your setup?

    I flooded my 510 section over 7 plates with 3600W running at 60% the first time I tried it. Fair dinkum scared the sh*t out of me when it came over the 180 bend. At least I now know what that threat looks like!

    Discussion on the forum here told me that the filter disc I had below the packed section was probably the problem. I am running it again in a week or two with only minimal restraint below the packing so it drains freely.

  • @yurgle said: Discussion on the forum here told me that the filter disc I had below the packed section was probably the problem. I am running it again in a week or two with only minimal restraint below the packing so it drains freely.

    Ha! One of those panic moments eh? Was the filter disc one of the SD ones sold in the online store? What kind of packing are you using?

  • edited May 2016

    @mark85 i think so - came with the unit second hand. link to the thread is here...
    I am using s/steel scrubbies from Bunnings. even though i stretch them out, they wont hold in the 510 section without restraint from below. I'm just going to use a single wire across the gap to hold them up.

  • edited May 2016

    If you want to add copper contact, why not get a few meters for 3/8ths or 1/2" copper tubing, cut it into lengths matching your piping, and stuff the piping full of the tubing?

    While the surface area is likely lower, the potential for flooding is minimal, and the cost isn't too high. You should be able to pack it tight enough that it's friction fit and doesn't require any screens to hold the copper in place.

    Call it a catalyzer and be all fancy.

    When you need to clean it, just take it off, and put it in a bucket of citric for a few hours.

  • I've run a 500mL packed section on top of 5 plates quite happily for a few years now. Would love more height but you work with what you've got.

  • Yes our standard filter discs can contribute to liquid holdup and flooding at higher power levels. Solution is a bit of stainless mesh or something cut to shape to hold the packing.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • @grim thanks for suggestion. I completely forgot about the copper pipe. I would imagine you would need a lot longer section of packing with the copper pipe.

    I have some copper mesh from my old boka reflux still that I want to repurpose. I can combine the mesh and pipe to ensure it is not packed too tightly.

    Does anyone have an idea of how long section of pipe is required for a stage if the packing is a mesh? @yurgle would you suggest a sightglass to monitor flooding?

  • edited May 2016

    I think you're basic assumption and reasoning behind the whole idea could be faulty.

    @Anro said: I would like to add a packed section to my column (with copper mesh) order to increase the contact time of my distillate with the copper.

    What leads you to believe you need more contact with copper? Have you detected a fault in your distillate?

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • @punkin I have some copper mesh in the 180 degree bend at the top, which still becomes discolored over time. This leads me to believe that there are some sulfates in the distillate leaving the dephlegmator. I want to reduce the amount of sulfates by adding more copper in the path of my vapor. Is my reasoning flawed?

  • edited May 2016

    I think copper will discolour no matter what. In a fully packed copper column running only low wines that had been stripped using a full copper pot still i had copper mesh that looked like this after a few runs;

    image

    I don't think it had anything to do with sulfides.

    I would only be using either my senses to detect suphur compounds in my distillate or trace the wash back to a high sulphur producing ferment using materials that are prone?
    Do you smell sulphur compounds (rotten egg, sulphur burning, cooked cabbage or vegetal smell or even a meaty smell) in the finished distillate or do you use lager yeasts or have fermentation problems?

    Usually caused by hurried fermentations or poor yeast nutrition or bad feedstock.

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    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • Thanks for die advice @punkin. I appreciate it.

  • @Anro, I have fabricated my still, the only item I have purchased is my boiler. Check out my column, 2 inch diam.. Packed with two rolls of copper mesh and on top of the copper is ceramic rash rings. Then I have a sight glass on top them my Dephluge.. I have been having very good luck with this system by pulling 195 prof. I am in process of fabricating a 4 inch 6 plate pro cap plated tower can't wait to finish. Why do you think you need to pack a column above the plated column? I would think the plated still should be enough.

    image

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  • @jdgiildenzopf Well done on the column construction. It looks really neat and professional. I have some copper mesh available that I wanted to re-purpose in my column, but opted to rather build a smaller 2 inch column in order to do smaller batches. I did not get the separation that I was looking for in my column and wanted to add another packed section to increase the separation. I however found that my element was the issue since I could not increase my reflux a lot before the non-fermentable sugars in my rum wash would burn onto the element. I have requested a supplier to construct an element with a lower watt density in order to increase my energy input into the boiler.

    My copper mesh in my 4 inch column is after the dephlegmator and it still discolored, which led me to believe that I need to remove more sulphides in the column. @punkin 's post was an eye opener and I will rather go on my product taste than the visual changes in the packing.

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