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G'day all,
New to the forum, and new to the hobby!
Got my hands on the Appalachian Moonshine recipe (because I watched the show) and all seemed to go very well - bubbling happily yesterday but today I found white bubbles in a spiderweb like appearance on the fermenter...
What could it be? Is it still safe to do stripping runs?!?
Comments
Beautiful.
Fine to strip - it's probably a whopper of a pediococcus infection.
Taste it, probably pretty darn sour (you will not die).
Take a gravity, check to see how far it is from finishing fermentation. Strip it as soon as your get close to 1.00 - don't push it further as you'll likely lose alcohol to the bacteria.
First bit of good news! The SG was at 1.00 yesterday... So will scoop off the 'spiderweb' and then syphon the rest into several stripping runs!
Any idea why it may have occurred? Too many times opening the lid? Was expecting the CO2 to keep this sort of thing at bay...
Thats my house germ. I get it in everything. Either left it too long or didn't ferment hard and fast enough. High alc and low PH will protect better than a co2 blanket. I get it much more in allgrain and beer than i do in UJSM.
StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand
We only added 8Kg of sugar into the mash and the pH read 4.5, but I haven't spent a great deal of time with the pH meter so I took it as an approx. only. It tastes sour as mentioned above (does that mean it's a sour-mash? Haha) but disgustingly so... Currently doing stripping runs, starts @ around 50%ABV and we take it down to 25%. Smells a little like burnt popcorn...
Pedio is a facultative anaerobe - so actually the other way around - they prefer an anerobic environment (low oxygen), but will usually grow just fine in the presence of oxygen too.
Pedio and the other Lactobacillus bacteria can often hitch a ride on the grain, and then will stick around on your mashing and fermentation equipment, usually because we keep feeding them and giving them a nice place to live.
Absolutely Pediococcus - the bacteria will produce a high amount of diacetyl - which smells like ... bingo ... butter popcorn.
You getting any butterscotch?
A little diacetyl goes a long way in providing a nicer mouth feel. Don't write it off as trash, it could be very good.
Done 3 X 50L strip runs, pretty sure one more left to go... this will have all the grain in it. Sieving the grains out and squeezing the juices out is going to be a long and slow process! Hope it's all worth it!
So, obviously I will need to sterilise the fermenter, sieve and buckets... what about the boiler and still?!?!?
To prevent this from happening again, do I strip it sooner? Put more sugar in? Not worry about it? Boil the corn longer? It's the first time I've had a go at this, so your guidance is greatly appreciated!
We used our pot still components for the stripping run, is there any post-spirit run cleaning we need to consider? I am concerned that I've exposed not only myself and family but all our equipment to infection... It may be an overreaction, but I don't know what the potential outcome is/could be?!?!? Where we live, it gets nice and hot and is, at times, very humid; perfect for growing diseases...
One more question (sorry), being the first run it is a sweet mash and we're supposed to keep some of the 'Trub' left at the bottom for future runs (as in sour-mashing). Can we still use this mash or has the infection ruined this Trub??
Wont hurt your still. Alcohol steam cleaning is about as good a sterilisation as you could hope for.
Wont hury you or your family and you cant catch a disease. Worst thing can happen is you wont like the lacto flavour.
I wouldnt use the trub although tge backset will be sterile and fine to use.
StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand
A number of pedio strains are being studied as beneficial probiotics.
You don't need to sterilize the boiler/still - the boiling will do that.
Everything that touches mash needs to be thoroughly cleaned, and chemically sanitized. Iodophor, Star san, etc etc.
Do not re-use the trub, you will reinfect the next mash. Given the Pedio and potential lacto infection - this is absolutely a "sour-mash".
We could give you some tips on the procedure, but we'd need to know it.
Rito, It's from another site (one I joined before I knew of this site). Am I permitted to link to it or should I copy and paste?
I don't think it really matters, either way.
The beer guys really have this thing nailed down to a science - as sanitation on the brewing side is significantly more critical.
A COMPLETE GUIDE TO CLEANING AND SANITATION
Thank you, will investigate further!
Sorry, spending a week away with the family and forgot to pop this up (pls note, this is from another distilling website, most will know it):
This is what I followed...
Amen brother! One of my great attractions to distilling is not having to be anal-retentive about sanitizing my mashes and washes. Just chuck it on in there and let'er rip!
FWIW I brew a lot of beer and mead and have not had an unintentionally infected batch in decades.
I'm more like I am now than I was before.
Boy, not followed my own post, dumb-a#*$e!
Anyway, thanks to the advise given, we scooped off the infection mass then proceeded to strip the AM. Turned out alright (have nothing to compare it to), initially it seemed almost neutral with very little flavour. Ended up with 6L of final product after the spirit run, 2L on medium oak, 2L on dark oak and 2L white dog...
After a month on and it's cleared up nicely, a little colour and very smooth! Had a couple of friends taste it with me and it's very much like a Burbon, a little sweet with corn overtones, but very much nicer than before.
Obviously my lack of knowledge and experience has had an effect on yield and taste, but I can't see how, in Moonshiners, they taste it off the still and swoon! Ok, it's a TV show dramatization, but seriously!?!?! Tasted like fuel of our still!! Don't ask how I know fuel tastes!
They are drinking water and acting.
Ummm...maybe it's just getting used to tasting off the condenser, or maybe I'm just kidding myself, but teaspooning right off the still lets me experience really good flavor notes in the output spectrum. Ok, sometimes some bad ones, too.
Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
my book, Making Fine Spirits
Thinking on that a bit more, I'll be less hesitant. When I've taught classes with a group of people observing a still run, I've pointed out flavor notes at particular times, and most people agreed with the observation, once they get used to doing it.
Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
my book, Making Fine Spirits
Makes sense to me. With only a little amount to taste, your saliva will instantly dilute down to drinking strength
There ya go! ;)
StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America
Good point! I forgot to say that I recommend catching only a tiny sample on the spoon, and yup, it's saliva dilution thing.
Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
my book, Making Fine Spirits
Spend enough time on the receiving end of the parrot and you find yourself wondering if all the vodka was watered down by the bartender.
@grim, too true. And I know that I have swooned to a couple of particularly good batches while tasting off the parrot. AFTER the heads cut was done, of course.