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Gin Setup: Plates & Dilution

edited January 2016 in Usage
This discussion was created from comments split from: New Stock Arrival.

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  • edited January 2016

    Hey what postage option do I need to go for in regards to getting a 90 degree 2" and a 4x2x2 short T sent to 3012?

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    Set up last night and realized that I am too tall to run the GB4 at the top, I have extra 2" extensions to bring the GB4 down lower if need be but will need a 90 to attached the PC shotgun and parrot

    Each end of the packed section has a perf plate with a downcomer do you see any issue with this? I was thinking of swapping the 100m extension with a short tee so I can make sure it doesn't flood, the other thought was to put the thermotee above the packed section with a ProCap plate?

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    450 x 800 - 76K
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    450 x 800 - 74K
  • edited January 2016

    For postage it'd be in a 3kg satchel, not sure what you mean by 4 x 2 x 2 tee, do you mean a torpedo? Pretty sure i'm out of stock on them.

    Generally people will run a gin basket away from the column, so a charge of clean neutral hearts and swing the column out of the way on a hook from the ceiling to connect the GB4 direct to the boiler.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • edited January 2016

    @punkin said: Generally people will run a gin basket away from the column, so a charge of clean neutral hearts and swing the column out of the way on a hook from the ceiling to connect the GB4 direct to the boiler.

    Yeah I was considering running the GB4 direct but was thinking another pass through the column wouldn't hurt to clean up the spirit some more unless there is no benefit in this?

    I have 12L of clean 40% that I can run through (will need to dilute it to fit in my boiler however. May have to run 4 plates and slow to bring the % up (might have to start with a 20L charge at 25%)

    And just double checked you are out of the short 4x4x2" short tees all good

  • edited January 2016

    Yes i think the more passes and the more cuts the better your base spirit will be, also think a 27% charge in pot mode through the GB4 will see you collecting around the 65-68% mark. I'm no expert in gin but would think that'd be OK? Hopefully someone else will chime in that knows this stuff.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • If you ran with the plates, there is good and bad...

    Good, you can get rid of maybe a bit more heads if you warm up the basket housing and then drain the drippings... bad, you are not getting a full range of alcohol and water as solvents to pass through the botanicals, you are mostly alcohol, I have been told that this full range is beneficial, related to why some botanicals show up early and some late...

    Nothing like making a batch of Gin and detecting something bad in the base distillation after the fact..

  • So are you saying @CothermanDistilling that a 40% charge running straight through the GB could be a better way to do it?

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • cover the element with water and then a little bit, add your 'tastes as good as you want it to ever taste' spirit (does not have to be 'neutral', just great tasting!) at full strength, and run it fairly hard and fast through the GB... stop when you are taking off less than 20% (give or take some, there is only a couple percent left when you get to this area... taste or smell, maybe save fractions like you would tails...)

  • edited January 2016

    I run my GB4 attached to the top of a Torpedo, but only to give the GB4 enough elevation to clear my boiler. I use 3X neutral as my base spirit - diluted to 20% in the boiler. First runnings come off at 80%. Collect down to 20%. Aggregate collected percentage = 50% (100 proof) No post-run dilution required. This makes the botanicals pop. Post-run dilution mutes the botanicals, IMHO.

    No need to make cuts on the infusion run. All cuts were made on the three previous runs (3X = strip, spirit, spirit).

    My boiler is a propane-fired half barrel sanke keg. Small boiler charges are no worry. No need to keep any elements submerged.

    Having recently become a fan of Tanqueray No.10, I am going to try some fresh citrus peel in my next infusion run.

    I'm more like I am now than I was before.

  • edited January 2016

    That's great information thanks Kapea. How many litres of the 20% go in?

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • edited January 2016

    1300mL of azeotrope 3X neutral + 5000mL of filtered rainwater into the boiler yields 2000mL of 100 proof gin.

    I'm more like I am now than I was before.

  • edited January 2016

    Now when I go back and read my previous post, I see that it might not be clear, so I will rewrite it in an attempt to clarify:

    I mix 1300mL of azeotrope strength neutral, that has already been distilled three times, with 5000mL of filtered rainwater to make a 6300mL charge of 20% base spirit wash in the boiler.

    The infusion run starts with distillate coming off the still at 80%. I collect all the way down to 20%. I mix all of the distillate together and end up with 2000mL of 100 proof gin.

    I'm more like I am now than I was before.

  • edited January 2016

    Chemist's equation for calculating change in volumes and concentrations:

    C1V1 = C2V2
    Where:
    C1= original concentration
    V1 = original volume
    C2 = ending concentration
    V2 = ending volume

    Isolate the desired unknown and solve the equation.

    Example - how much water do you need to add to 1300mL of 96% neutral to dilute it to 20%?

    C1 = 96%
    V1 = 1300mL
    C2 = 20%
    V2 = X

    96% x 1300mL = 20% x X
    X = (96% x 1300mL)/20%
    X = 6240mL

    Water to add to 1300mL of 96% to dilute to 20%
    6240mL (total) -1300mL (ethanol) = 4940mL (water)

    5L of water is close enough for easy measuring.

    Use whatever units for volume and concentration you like, as long as they are consistent throughout the equation.

    I'm more like I am now than I was before.

  • That don't actually work here as the components collapse when mixed.
    Good enough for the purpose here though.

  • edited January 2016

    Yeah. If you were measuring with class A glassware you might note a discrepancy. But, as we used to say back in the day, "Close enough for a power plant this size."

    I'm more like I am now than I was before.

  • It's a few %. Enough for me to taste in diluting product but not enough to matter when redistilling.

  • The issue I have is that I have 50L boiler and as much as I enjoy a gnt, infused vodka, ouzo,Absinthe etc having 15-20L to cover my elements and then adding enough neutral to get it upto 40% means I will end up with a lot of product :S seriously need to look into a smaller boiler for this sort of thing

  • Jeez, if I drank everything I made I'd be dead.

  • see my comments above about the advantages of a propane fired boiler

    I'm more like I am now than I was before.

  • @jacksonbrown said: It's a few %. Enough for me to taste in diluting product but not enough to matter when redistilling.

    Experimentation and empirical results got me to the 1300mL plus 5000mL to 2000mL regime noted above. 100 proof gin straight off of the still. No dilution of product required. Produces a superior product, to my taste. (with about 30 days of aging to achieve the beginning of the sweet spot, flavor-wise)

    That's the liquid side. The botanical side I keep close to the vest,

    I'm more like I am now than I was before.

  • Sounds like your dialing in a commercial recipe then?

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  • I'd think on a small charge you could run easily on one element for heat up and the run. I haven't measured it on a milk can but it could be no more than 6 or 8l? Even if you doubled Kapeas figures it's still only 4l of Gin. With a proven recipe it doesn't seem a lot, although i understand that in development or if you are doing components you may not want that much.

    So what about if you had a half a boiler full or so of spirit and only ran off what you wanted, cooled and collected the rest?

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • Maybe you you could put a few glass bricks in the boiler

  • or 9000 marbles :D

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • :) That was the start of my thought process.

  • @Clickeral - if you want to make 10L of Gin or less, your components that are under .01g/liter ( which is nearly everything except Juniper, coriander and cucumber), you will need to extremely accurate in not only to much less than a tenth of a gram, but your selection of that tenth of a gram is critical, you may get more husk or more core or more stem or more leaf...

    I would use a smaller/different boiler (kapeas's propane, or the 2L glass lab still like Grim and I have) to make 10g/liter , component distillations (you could use 3g in 300ml and store in a typical beer bottle or 7.5g ) (this is measured at or near bottling strength, I use 100 proof in and after distilling ~60% of the volume off through the botanical, reconstitute to original volume with good water)

    It will be nearly impossible to get the exact right amount in a mixed botanical infusion until you have hundreds of botanical distillations under your belt(or you have very wide ranging ideas of what is acceptable)... some things, like grains of paradise, peppercorns, or sweet orange peel, you may find are at .005grams per liter, and getting 1/20th of a gram takes serious equipment, but you can take .005L (5ml) of a 10g/L solution and put it in 10L to get that concentration.

    if you want even more accuracy, or are prototyping small 100ml-1L batches, you can take 10ml of the 10g/L and mix with 90ml of 100 proof neutral to make a 1g/L strength component...

    I previously posted a spreadsheet for gin, It can help you calculate both the dry and component additions for your volume.

    Here is the post.

  • @Clickeral Hey mate, how are you going with your Gin set up?? Punkin has a GB4 in the post for me this week. I'm looking forward to giving it a go. In the meantime i've been reading and reading. It seems a 25L batch is the go. I've read on another site the the botanicals go bitter after 45mins, is this right?? Because i'm thinking about whether to run in pot mode or do another pass thru 5 plates as you've suggested. My thinking is in pot mode mine kicks off at 70% and will only take about 35-45mins to collect down to 20% and on the other hand another pass thru 5 plates kicks off at 94% and will take longer.. A lot of posts by members haven't mentioned whether they are running in a pot or thru plates so I'm curious of the best configuration and what are pep's experiences of how long the botanicals last during vapour infusion.

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