RC & PC Temperatures

edited May 2015 in Usage

I've been trying to find a set of basic temps for RC & PC for various stages of the run, until I get the hang of it.

I've watched all the videos trying to view the temps of all the runs.

My setup is pictured below, 4" Dash with ProCaps, super dephlegmator, 2" long product condenser. Ability to run up to 9 kW at the moment (aiming to run about 3 kW for reflux and 3-4 kW in the run) on a 240L boiler with 160L charge (usually 5% ABV single run).

I'm guessing it varies a lot depending on power.

Thanks for any assistance with this.

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Comments

  • edited May 2015

    Had the same question here.

    RC is the key for flavor, PC I just set so my product temp coming out is OK.

  • probably somewhere between 50 and 65C for your RC, and the PC, like said above, just enough to cool your product... mine with 2 2" pc's in a row is 130F, what is that, 45C.

    remember, best to measure the temp of the water inside the RC if you can, cause with low flow, the exit temp changes too slowly...

  • I have the shorter 6" 9 hole RC. I set my PID to between 68-73 deg c exit water temp running between 2900 - 3400w for take off depending on product and configuration.

  • your cooling water and the flow rate will affect your readings too. do you have a constant supply of constant temp coolant or will the temp increase over a run eg is using a smaller reservoir?

  • I tried controlling via exit water temp and all I did was confuse the shit out of both me and the Dash. The water temp in my tank changes during a run and without automated electronic gagetry, it was too much. Now I pretty much set the intake water rate on the RC and let it fly. The PC water rate is enough to condense the spirit without being too hot so that my ABV reading isn't off too much. I haven't changed the setting on that in months. Stripping or spirit run. I used to think that I wanted some sort of controller for my rig but now that I have about 20 or so runs with it, I just use the needle valve on the RC and adjust the power knob on the power box. All the control I need.

  • you can do the math, something like flow rate * temperature differrential... but since it also varies with power applied, passive losses in column, boiling point/alc level, etc, it is better to just baseline your particular setup:

    Here is what you do... run water at wide open (if a pump, but just as fast as you feel comfortable if city water), see how much power you can pass with out the dephleg passing vapor( maybe 3KW for example for your setup)... it works best if it is a full on/off element...

    Then you monitor the RC exit water temp(and inlet temp)...... mark this value(and the differential) as 'full reflux' in your notes.

    Reduce water flow very, very slowly to get a couple degree increase in the water flow, and keep doing this until the temp above the RC rises and just a slow drip of product comes out... record in your notes the temp and how much you slowed water flow (GPM on a meter, number of turns in or out on the SD push-connect valve, or whatever) this is your fores/heads compression setting... run for an hour like this

    reduce water flow very slowly to get an appropriate size stream for your column, mark this temp and flow in your notes as taking heads...

    next time you can make the adjustments much faster....

    KEEP GOOD NOTES....

    Then, when you have that down, 10-20 runs maybe, and IF you want to do it a little more precise, invest a couple hundred in Automating your Reflux Condenser Water Flow

  • edited October 2015

    It is much easier to setup a PID if you have baseline numbers to start from, otherwise you are fighting with PID parameters in addition to operational parameters. You've got to do the legwork to see what works first, like Cotherman mentions.

  • Finally getting around PID'ing my RC this week and running into an issue (of course). Bought a myPin PID controller and a Johnson control valve.

    PID takes 80-240V AC and puts out 4-20mA, valve takes 24V AC and I'm using an old HVAC power supply.

    Now here's the kicker - PID output had + and - , valve has 1 input and common ground with AC power.

    -> How do I write this sucker up? Just connecting the + from PID since it's going to be a shared ground?

  • edited October 2015

    Check here.

  • yep, thanks @grim

    @Unsensibel - just pick one of the 24v AC wires to be common/ground, (that is what the HVAC guys do, look at the wiring on a a thermostat) look at the pictures in that thread and if you look closely, all wires can be traced...

  • One basic of wiring things like this... start with the things you know for sure and what is left will be easier to decide... (to be extra safe, think "I know if won't fry it if I connect these two wired together this way")

    You know where the thermocouple + and - wires go, wire them up.

    You know where the AC supply wires for the PID go, wire them up.

    You know where the AC supply wires for the valve go (mine has a long pigtail with a marker that has a squiggly line for AC for the red wire and an upside down T for ground/common that is the black wire) , wire them up.

    You know the PID 'output' has + and -, you have a grey wire from the valve that says 'input'. Output goes to input... makes perfect sense.... a good assumption is that this would be the + terminal, and not the - terminal.

    now, the '-' from the PID is the only thing left... common(pun intended) sense say that the best place for this would be the ground/common of the power...

    And just like that, you are wired...

  • Oh, and that resistor, don't forget that!

    When you put the 500 ohm resistor across the valve terminals, the 4-20mA that the PID puts out go through this resistor and create a voltage that the valve detects, the 2-10V to be more precise!

  • @grim & @CothermanDistilling - Thanks!

    I have everything going (PID 4-20mA output, pt100 measurement, valve power) but wanted to be cautious with the shared ground to not blow my controller.

    Any reason to hook up the 500R resistor instead of going 4-20mA?. The valves can do both and I have it jumped to mA...

  • Incidentally, I just fried my fuse on the multimeter not switching the plug from V to A measurement. Shaping to be a good day... :((

  • @Unsensibel said: Incidentally, I just fried my fuse on the multimeter not switching the plug from V to A measurement. Shaping to be a good day... :((

    I do not want to admit how many times I have done that... million dollar idea for meter manufacturers... a circuit breaker instead of a fuse!

  • @Unsensibel said: grim & CothermanDistilling - Thanks!

    I have everything going (PID 4-20mA output, pt100 measurement, valve power) but wanted to be cautious with the shared ground to not blow my controller.

    Any reason to hook up the 500R resistor instead of going 4-20mA?. The valves can do both and I have it jumped to mA...

    the valve does both, but you need the resistor to do 4-20mA, here is a capture of the manual (PDF):

    The top is for 2-10v, the bottom is for 4-20mA, and uses an 'external resistor' Edit - disregard the bottom line that goes to the U terminal, we do not use this.

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