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Foreshots on Low Wines

G'day guys I normally take 200 ml foreshots when I do a single run. I have stripped 4 rum washes and am going to run it soon do I need to take a larger fores cut?
Cheers JR

Comments

  • I always take 300ml per 48l wash. If I strip 2 washes, on the spirit run I would take 600ml. This may be overkill but WTH. It really depends on the size of your run. Running 32l? Then the 200ml is about right by my calculations. What size washes did you strip?

  • 4x40L washes so you reckon take 1200ml

  • Made about 45L at 40 abv

  • I usually cut when I have a little more than a smattering but not as much as a modicum.

    Why such a high level of precision in describing this?

  • I would cut right when I get to a doodad. If I knew how to distill.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • ^^^ zactly...

    If you have a clean fermentation, that is, you are distilling a product that you would drink, you will have way, way, way less foreshots... if you fermented on the grain and stressed the yeast or used turbo yeast and have a vile product compared to wine or beer, you want to take out a whole lot more...

    Also, if you compress heads and take foreshots off at a very slow rate, you may be down in the 50ml range, but your nose should tell you wen the acetone is done...

    when in doubt, collect a bunch of smaller samples in the beginning and later compare from good to bad, not bad to good.

    When you are doing the same thing over and over, you can go by volume, if not, use sensory analysis...

  • How does that answer my question??

  • Thanks CD that makes sense I stripped 4x40L pugirum washes and ended up with 45l at 40ABV I've charged my milk can without diluting and have pulled off 400ml so far of fores at a 1-2 drips a second still has a strong pear smell at the parrot so I'll take till it drops off then pull heads. I refluxed for 30 mins prior to fores to compress it down.

  • @Johnboy said: How does that answer my question??

    Does not at all. Sorry :(

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • My scenario is different than most; I am making a shitload of liquor and overdo the fores/heads cut because I can afford to toss anything that I think might not help the final product. Let's put it this way; nobody in their right mind would hire me to be a master distiller if the bottom line mattered at all.

  • I don't really see the need for labelling part of the heads cut 'fores'. If you are not using it anyway, why split it and call it something else? Recycle or toss it, whatever you like, your heads cut will be well and truley enough to seperate any low boiling point stuff. If you are not drinking it then why bother seperating it from the rest of the low boiling point stuff you are removing?

    All of this stuff has answered your question, just not the answers you expected to hear :D

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • The line between fores and heads doesn't really exist, is what I am trying to say.

    The primary constituent of Fores is ethyl alcohol, by a large margin. The primary constituent of heads is ethyl alcohol, by a large margin. When we say fores or heads, we are talking about smal amounts of volatile cogeners with to which we are highly sensitive (low detection threshold).

    So, the deliniation is completely arbitrary, really. If you look at the hplc / gc analysis (there's a few good academic papers) you'll see that even the concept of methanol being constrained to heads is largely nonsense.

  • edited August 2015

    Whiskey Technology page 204ish - Panek and Boucher - 1989

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    480 x 621 - 27K
  • edited August 2015

    I'm pretty good a reading phase diagrams, but that diagram confuses the shit outta me.

    I'm more like I am now than I was before.

  • And this is a simplification, imagine if every potential compound were graphed out?

    There would be hundreds of arcs of different shapes, heights, and widths.

    Fores, heads, hearts, and tails - they are where the distiller says they are, not the other way around.

  • Ok I see what you mean I was trying to eliminate the small amount of meth at the beginning of the run then save all else to determine my cuts after airing but really as you say heads/fores are all the same if I'm not gonna use it. The pear smell remained till 500ml so assumed that to be beginnings of heads. I shut down halfway through the run at 2am just firing back up now should I reflux again and take a small fores cut or just carry on from where I left off?

  • Reflux again for a short time and take another small heads cut is what i would do. You can taste when heads disappear, the sweetness goes.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • Cool that's what I'll do then

  • I never do cuts on stripping runs, only on spirit runs. I find you can't rely on a set quantity to take off for feints. This changes with what has happened with the fermented wash, wether it be temperature, yeast, nutrients etc. On a 50 litre spirit run at 45% ABV, I'll take off anywhere between 1.8 and 3 litres of feints before the acetate smell and taste disappears. If doing brandy with 6 or 7 plates I'll take less for more flavour, for a TPW for vodka and gin using 10 plates I'll take off more. I have a friend who is a chef with a nose that is a thing of wonder. I always try to get him to be the final arbiter on wether the output is clean or not. You tend to get de-sensitised after a 4 or five tastes.

  • Ok so I've aired it for a couple days and I've ended up with 4.25L of heads/fores 7.25L of hearts and 5.25L of tails there are 2 1.25L jars that are so smooth you could drink it neat then the remainder is good but should age nicely I double checked all the tails for that special jar everyone talks about but it isn't standing out? All jars are at 91% how would you guys recommend aging it? I was thinking keeping the 2 standout jars separate and blending the rest proof to 65% and French oak. Is it worth trying American oak and or vanilla?

  • edited August 2015

    I wouldn't separate out the two best jars - 34% of your hearts is a big amount to peel off. I would consider the remainder inferior because of it, but that's just me. If I did want to do something extra special like that, I'd throw the remainder into the next run.

  • @grim said: I wouldn't separate out the two best jars - 34% of your hearts is a big amount to peel off. I would consider the remainder inferior because of it, but that's just me. If I did want to do something extra special like that, I'd throw the remainder into the next run.

    +1

    Not sure how you ran it but that special tails jar is found much easier by collecting with small jars. it is much easier to find when pot stilling and may not be there for you at all if you are really squeezing down hard with a higher RR.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • I ran with 4 plates and a little reflux throughout the run I collected the heads in 500ml jars hearts in 1250ml and tails in 500ml jars to see if I could split the differences and tasting as I went

  • edited August 2015

    250 to 300 ml will help keep things more compartmentalized.

    Stick with the same recipe and run strategy until you get very familiar. Then can go to the larger collection vessels for each cut.

    5 or 6 runs with the same recipe and you should be very comfortable with the expected yield.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • Cheers I'll buy another dozen jars

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