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Fine Scotch Whiskey

edited April 2014 in Cookbook

This comment from @punkin has been moved from our Activity, which clearly is not the right place for longer postings (our Activity is more like a Twitter-style feed meant for short messages).


This one was developed from Harry's recipe by a local guy I built a pot still for.

Fine Scotch Whisky (produced at home - adopted from Harry's Glenmorangie clone recipe)

Be sure to consult Harry's posting.

At its outset, coming off a base of continual disappointment distilling neutral spirit from dextrose washes and flavoring with essences, all of which resulted in flavors comparable with cough medicine, I admit to once being hesitant when considering producing this (Harry's) whiskey. The cost and effort involved here exceed that of the dismal essence experience however, to end any hesitation, the result is replication of authentic scotch whiskey.

My whiskey, now entering its 2nd year is at 52% ABV and developing rich malt with beautiful, warm amber color and medium to strong peat smokiness, not unlike an Islay malt, it is already higher end quality.

From Harry's invaluable information, the following is the outcome of my interpretation of this and how I implemented his method (less the famous Glenmorangie 1/5 cut) to produce, as it is titled, Fine Scotch Whiskey.

Equipment:

  • Pot still & parrot beak with 50L boiler capacity
  • Feints/strip collection vessel (50L)
  • Above vessels are of stainless steel, air tight capable with drain fitted
  • White oak aging barrel (50L charred)
  • Extra white oak off cuts ($50 per wheelie bin full)
  • Stainless steel buckets 12L x 2 (for mashing and collection of distillate)
  • Strainer - robust (I use an un-colored plastic bucket with many 3/16 holes drilled)
  • New garbage bins 40L x 2 (these receive mashed & strained grain liquid)
  • Fermenters 30L x 2 with air lock and drain - thermometer attached
  • Glass jar with lid

Plus the usual home brewing essentials - stainless spoon, Pyrex measures, wine thief, auto syphon, appropriate hydrometers and sampling / measuring vessel.

Ingredients:

(per fermenter x 2) the eventual total wort of 40L well matches the 50l still boiler, filling the boiler beyond this may cause foaming still contents to spoil the spirit....

  • 2kg Bairds malted barley (peated medium)
  • 6kg Coopers light malt extract (4x1.5kg cans)
  • 5 teaspoons baker's yeast
  • 1 sachet ale yeast (Fermentis Safale US-05)
  • Water to fill to 20L level
  • Demineralized water for adjusting hearts to 65% ABV

These yeasts are vital in producing authentic scotch Whiskey flavor. (see Harry's posting) Prepare the wort - remember amounts are for 1 fermenter, you're making 2 batches.

Mash & Sparge the Grain

Begin by mashing the grain, place dry grain (2kg per bucket - rough cut) add 6L tap water (hot as you can get it) wrap a good quilt tightly around the buckets to hold heat in. Leave 1 hour.

Alternatively, use slow cookers or large boiler to more efficiently mash your grain, hold temp at 65°C for 30 minutes.
Next strain liquid from the grain into a sterilized (new) garbage bin. With a couple of liters of very hot to boiling water, do a final rinse over the grain. Keep water usage to a minimum as your final fermenter level should not exceed 20L based on a 50L still boiler.

I squeeze dry mine, collecting nearly all moisture. This grain is now spent but you have (in your liquid) the all important peat smoke and some barley malt. In lieu of preparing an all grain ferment, the full maltiness, call it cheating, comes by adding light malt extract.

The temperature of the strained malt liquid is sufficient to fully liquefy the extract, add 6kg per fermenter. I used Coopers Light Malt Extract. Your level may now be around the 12L mark.

Aiming for a final fermenter temperature of around 25-30°C. (these years are temp forgiving, however, extremes will compromise quality) other than in mid winter, top up to 20L using cold tap water. In cold weather, wrapping Fermenters with a quilt over an electric blanket will maintain good temperature to complete the fermentation. Aim for an initial gravity of around 1070 and a final gravity of 1000 or less. Be aware that initial fermentation is quite aggressive, for this period it is unlikely that the electric blanket will be turned on.

Always, pitching yeast takes precedent over perfect wort temp. Your valuable wort is a t risk of wild yeast infection the longer it stands un-inoculated, don't become consumed with exacting temps. Into a clean jar, extract some wort using the wine thief and add both yeasts, shake well to hydrate, stir the hydrated yeast blend into the wort. Repeat this process for the 2nd 20L of wort.

Distill the Fermented Wort (Stripping Run)

With a hydrometer reading of 1000 or less, the fermented wort is ready for the still, charge the still with no more than 40L and bring to the boil. Once the condenser began to flow, I found strip runs ran smoother when the burners were kept below high, this prevented foam reaching the condenser and entering the collected strip. For final spirit quality, discard the initial 200ml of flow, then collect all strip down to an alcohol level of 20% or even slightly below, you can expect to collect up to 8 liters. Note the already scotch like taste and aroma of the strip or low wines, I stored this in a 50L beer keg.

Malt strip runs leave plenty of deposits within still components so be sure to clean equipment thoroughly following this procedure.

Repeat the fermentation and stripping process until you have collected at least 40L of strip.

Spirit Run

Charge the still with 40L of collected strip and bring to the boil, once flowing, again, I collect and discard the initial 200ml of spirit however, in the name of clean spirit this may be overkill anyhow, beginning at 85% ABV or higher, direct all flow to the strip collector.

Approaching 82% ABV, you are soon to be collecting the hearts of your spirit run. Reduce the burners to medium to avoid getting flecks in the final spirit. At 80% ABV down to possibly 60% are, as a guide the hearts, collect these separately. Below here down to maybe 40%, flavors may change from good to bad and good again, at 500ml collection intervals for me if it smelled and tasted good, it was kept as hearts, the bad was collected as feints to return to the strip collector. From 40% down to 20% it is probably fair to say - direct all flow to the strip collector, these are flavorsome additions to future strip run collections.

Collected hearts were adjusted to 65% ABV using demineralized water then placed in large jars containing charred white oak. Jars served the purpose of storage with aging capabilities until several spirit runs were collected. I had a new charred L barrel on hand but I'm told these don't like to be less than half filled when new. Other than a few sample bottles which were adjusted from 65 to% ABV after being in a charred barrel only a matter of a few months, a few bottles taken later responded best when the ABV % was reduced in stages over time of small increments, my cuts were kept below 10% at around 8 week intervals. Use only demineralized water when making your cuts.

I kept the barrel contents at 65% for nearly 2 years before beginning the cutting process, I've not yet produced the final product.

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Comments

  • I've done this one a few times now as a partial mash and it turns out really nice. I don't have a barrel so I age it in demijohns with charred American oak. It turns out nice and malty with a good smoky peat taste.

  • I read the recipe and it looks right up my ally. what can I substitute the coopers light malt extract with, because I would like to mash the grain instead of cheating a little bit.

  • I would suggest either a good ale or pilsner malt. If you want to spend the money go for an english one, but i'd be happy with BB or JW.

    Pilsner will be lighter in colour and add less malt flavour, ale will be a stronger flavour. I reckon with the sort of grist you'll have with the peated stuff that the cheapest one will be the best.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • I made a near identical version of this, using a pilsner LME in place of the Coopers. It's in a 20L barrel and it's bloody amazing for it's age. I also added some caramalt and a secondary yeast, fermentis safspirit malt.

  • edited May 2015

    Punkin if this was done as an all-grain 60 litres, 3kg peated malt is obvious, but do you recon 9kg JW ale malt, may be 2kg dex? Thinking mash for 90min @ 67deg. Would that grain bill be enough to get to 1070? Might give it a go when I finish this year's beer Rossco

  • edited May 2015

    Entered the numbers in Brewmate.

    This assumes no boil, 4 litres loss to the mash, and 5 to the trub (fucked that up as it wouldn't go in the kettle even so you'd end up with 65 l) 72% efficiency.

    You'd probably have to adjust your efficiency down from my standard number with a OG that high, i know i would if i was doing it, maybe start with mid 60's and see what you get? Yeast will play a part in FG as well which will alter the abv.

    image

    image

    Shit, didn't see the dex, hang on.

    9kg gives you 1057 with 2kg dex.
    10.6 of ale malt and 3kg dex gets you 1070.

    Brewer's - Fried Brewing With Total Confidence

    I see they've changed the name of the program, not sure if it's been sold or just americanised.

    scotch1.jpg
    800 x 528 - 60K
    scotch2.jpg
    800 x 467 - 54K

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  • edited May 2015

    Thanks mate. That's a bit more grain than I thought but I have plenty lying around. As soon as my beers are finished I think we'll do a test batch, would you do a post-sparge 5min boil? Thinking you would need to sterilise the chiller. Might also be worth the effort of a dedicated whiskey yeast such as a WLP045 rather than US05.

    I was using brewmate as well but I switched to BIABCUS because it calculates BIAB volumes based on pot diameter etc. Wish I had space for a 3v system. Making beer anyway.

  • I don't know enough about the boil/no boil idea.

    On one hand if you don't do a boil (or a high temp sparge) you don't deactivate the enzymes and they can keep on keeping on and lower your fg to use up all those sugars.
    On the other hand you don't get the benefit of sterilization either. If using a chiller i'd personally try no boil and pitch a large starter. If i had trouble with infection i'd go back to boil. @Malted posted elsewhere during the week that he is on the same path so maybe he will pitch in and give an opinion?

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  • Part of the benefit of boiling is causing the hot break to happen in the boil kettle where it can be seen and controlled, instead of in the boiler where it is much harder to see, and causes puking.

    I'm more like I am now than I was before.

  • edited May 2015

    Also, most yeast manufacturers recommend rehydrating dry yeast with water, not wort. Sugars in the rehydrating medium interfere with the proper stretching back into shape of the dried yeasts' cell walls as they rehydrate.

    I'm more like I am now than I was before.

  • I have a urn so I can boil the chiller separately.

  • edited May 2015

    @Malted emailed me yesterday about something else, he said he is working on wording a post for this.

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  • edited May 2015

    @Kapea, I just make a couple of yeast colonies for the winter and harvest them each time. For beer its a 2litre starter based on us05 stepped up over a couple of days using malt. For pilsners its s23. For spirits I use the same starter with EC1118 but using sugar rather than malt. Then I harvest it each time.

    @punkin said: Malted emailed me yesterday about something else, he said he is working on wording a post for this.

    Great, I've made a plan to free up some fermenter and barrel space. Too cold here at the moment anyway, fermenting area therms are reading 16deg ish. Couple lower and I can make this year's pilsner. Will do a test batch when things warm up a bit.

  • edited June 2015

    Thanks for the intro @punkin. I am no expert, I am only up to number 4 brew of all grain whisky (some have been double batches) but I have been pondering some of the same issues. Like Doc, I am an all grain brewer with a 50L Braumeister. I have been brewing all grain beer for a few years and am reasonably comfortable with the processes and am now applying the same principles to my stilling. Punkin and I have in the past, discussed on a beer forum, some of the beer principles as they would apply to stillin. I will throw some of my thoughts (perhaps some of them more a soapbox than answering the issues) and questions here.

    A boil is needed to sterilise the chiller:

    I guess this means a plate chiller? Generally immediately after a brew, I flush and backflush my plate chiller with tap water. Then I run >20 litres of water (I keep some of the output water from the plate chiller) up to >90oC and throw some PBW in the BM. I will run some off and once the gunk is out I will run it both ways through the plate chiller. Before the next brew I will run some 5-10% orthophosphoric acid solution into the plate chiller and let it sit for a couple of minutes before I run some hot wort through it. Given this regime, I am not convinced a boil of the wort is entirely necessary to sterilise the chiller. Now I had said 'generally' I....
    Sometimes it is too late in the day and I am not enthusiastic enough to do a boil or near boil of cleaning water with PBW so I just hose everything out. In this case I certainly flush the chiller both ways with tap water and next time I use it, I will let the orthophos solution sit for a while longer before wort enters the chillers. I have never had any problems that I could identify as coming from the chiller.
    So why use a chiller? Why not 'no chill' overnight? There are no hops in the wash, no chilling will have no effect on bitterness. This is ignoring the botulism debate.

    Grain bill:

    I have used Bairds medium peated malted barley. I started with 50% and that seemed ok to me. The last wash was 60% peated. Some like peated whisky, some don't, so I can't say whether it is the bees knees. In my mind, a flavoursome wash will produce a flavoursome product given the inefficiency of a pot still. If you were making vodka/neutral spirit with a very efficient system, the flavour of the wash is not so important. Pilsner malt is reasonably plain IMO so I will use ale malt or a flavoursome English malt such as Marris Otter, if I have enough to spare. If I didn't have enough MO, I would use ale malt and some Munich malt and/or a touch of medium crystal or melanoidin. It is essentially the same principle as the grain bills for my beers (that don't have the peated malt). I think the wash is about more than just the peat.

    Gravity:

    Dry Malt Extract or Coopers Light Malt Extract is way more expensive than an all grain brew, particularly if you get in on a grain bulk buy. Brew In A Bag (BIAB) is a super easy way to make a wort or wash with very simple and inexpensive equipment. I'd suggest anyone who wants to try making an all grain wash should research beer forums rather than distilling forums. You do not dump a couple of kilograms of malted grain in a pot and boil it, chill it and add yeast. That is simply wrong, there is quite a bit more to it than that.
    I use a Braumeister and they can make a 10% potential ABV wash but is a bit more work. The BM is optimal for a wash of about 5% potential ABV. I have on one occasion made a normal 5% ABV whisky wash and added DME to increase the gravity for simplicity sake. It is probably the easy way out (given that I brew with a BM) but it didn't tick the "I brewed it from scratch" box for me (that is a valued statement for me). The other option is to make a wash of about 6% ABV so I can pretty much brew as normal without extra work (that is what I did with the last wash). The higher the gravity of the wash/beer the lower the efficiency (in most cases) of the potential to extract the sugars, so it is a decreasing return as you increase the gravity you are aiming for. More grain to make less sugars is where you go. There is an optimal sweetspot for best return of sugars for the least amount of grain. The trade-off is more time and effort running the still. In theory, one 10% wash will yield as much product as two 5% washes, and I would only have to run the still once instead of twice.
    With no hops, the easiest way to make a 10% wash with my BM (with no added stuff) would be to make a 50L batch of 5% and boil the heck out of it. That is the other main benefits of boiling, reducing volume and increasing gravity. If you don't sparge, you are leaving sugars behind. If you sparge you increase volume and decrease gravity. For this reason a boil is a good idea if you're sparging.

    Hot/cold break:

    The previous double batch I brewed was no chilled. I brewed 50L and split it into two jerry cans. I poured nice clear wash into one fermenter and the second fermenter got the rest of the wash and the break material. This was the only difference. It shocked the heck out of me but the one with the break in it had a shorter lag time and reached final gravity much sooner than the clear wash. I had put yeast nutrient in the brew and hit both with 02 prior to pitching the same quantities of yeast (SafSpirit Malt).

    Boil and enzymes:

    The most recent double batch (still fermenting) I decided to do a no boil just for the heck of it. This was based on some folks saying that boiling will deactivate the enzymes in the mash that will convert the starches and complex sugars etc into simpler sugars that yeast can more readily digest. Starch tests aside, I am led to believe it is more about simple sugars versus complex sugars. I am not sure what effect it would have on flavour. I am inclined to think that from my experience with beers, the thinner the beer (lower final gravity) the lower the flavour (I am not convinced about this though). Sure you can hop the heck out of a thin beer but we are not using hops in a wash. On this occasion I added some powdered amylase enzyme to the mash and to the wash after it was removed from the mash. I am not sure it made a difference.

    What @Kapea says about hot break makes sense to me. That is a winner right there. If I get a stack of puking when I run this no-boiled batch, I reckon I will be back to boiling. It didn't feel right not boiling, I can't see enough reasons (for me) to not boil. There seem to be a number of benefits to boiling. I reckon I will keep boiling and throwing some amylase at it once it is cooled.

    If it aint half off, it aint on sale!

  • Envious of your Braumeister. Too much coin for this backwoods hick but I sure would take one if I found one used for a (heavily discounted) good price.

  • edited June 2015

    The main reason in beer brewing for the boil is to drive off DMS, keep things sterile, and to introduce hop oils as desired. In the whiskey world I dont feel a boil is overly necessary.

    1. DMS is super volatile and is driven off in the still when heads come over.
    2. Hops are generally not used
    3. You are essentially pasturizing (not sterilizing) your malt when you add water at mashing temps. As long as everything else is kept sterile (including your chiller - starsan is the best stuff ever) you shouldnt have to worry too much. Additionally, since your yeast is competing with the bad bugs, it should win out for at least a month (assuming everything is kept clean and sterile and you pitch enough yeast) or so and then you can run through your still. Healthy/fast ferments are key!

    I agree with Kapea - the real reason for the boil is to avoid hot break and keep things from foaming as much... but you can always add some ferm cap to break those proteins down without them puking in your still. Just start out slow until you are past the hot break. I know some people who boil the heck out of barleywines and wee heavy to carmelize the sugars a little bit... but not sure its worth it for whiskey.

    I generally suggest (both beer and scotch) to focus on mash temp (higher = less fermentables but more flavor and lower equals higher ABV), sanitation, yeast health (fresh yeast/stir plate/o2), and ferm temps. Generally the enzymes take care of themselves... and the remaining unfermented sugars are what add a lot of character (tasty beer = tasty whiskey).

    Jasper

  • edited June 2015

    Thanks for the rundown @Malted.

    Couple more questions:

    @Jasper said: I generally suggest (both beer and scotch) to focus on mash temp (higher = less fermentables but more flavor and lower equals higher ABV),

    So what temp do you mash at? My original guess was 66 deg because that is correct for making ales 6%.

    Do you think that some of the cold break should be allowed into the fermenter as yeast nutrient?

    Temp into the fermenter and sediments in the wash are not an issue for me.

    I mainly ferment Ukranian style, in an open stainless vessel. Do you see that as a problem?

  • edited June 2015

    Thanks mate.

    @Jasper one of the main reasons i can see to boil is also to increase gravity.

    I just don't know enough about it, i do know when i used to do allgrain distilling washes and didn't have the equipment i do now for allgrain beer that i had a lot of lacto infections from letting mash cool overnight before pitching yeast.
    The infections weren't always a bad thing as a little lacto twang can be good in some of the grains i was playing with (dunno if you'd want them in a fine scotch whiskey though).

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  • @punkin said: Thanks mate.

    Jasper one of the main reasons i can see to boil is also to increase gravity.

    I just don't know enough about it, i do know when i used to do allgrain distilling washes and didn't have the equipment i do now for allgrain beer that i had a lot of lacto infections from letting mash cool overnight before pitching yeast.
    The infections weren't always a bad thing as a little lacto twang can be good in some of the grains i was playing with (dunno if you'd want them in a fine scotch whiskey though).

    Yeah - cooling fast and getting the yeast pitched is super important with barley... otherwise you could end up with a lacto bomb. Lacto is fun with corn... but in barley whiskey it isn't exactly a 'traditional' flavor (although... i have been meaning to try distilling a berliner weiss - more for curiousity sake than anything).

    And yes, boiling certainly increases the gravity by lowering the liquid volume. Personally I just use a bigger fermenter and purge any excess headspace with co2.

  • edited June 2015

    @rossco said: I mainly ferment Ukranian style, in an open stainless vessel. Do you see that as a problem?

    Open fermentations are kind of fun but they will do different things to your final product. A lot of breweries use 'cool ships' (essentially long shallow open air containers) with the premise that it puts less downward pressure on the yeast and allows them to work easier. This changes the flavor profile somewhat - it allows yeast to throw off more esters and phenols. It is used a lot in sour beer production (lambics, flanders, etc.)

    On a homebrewer scale i kind of doubt it really makes much of a difference, though. I have made several open fermented hefes and couldn't tell much (if any) difference. The only thing i would warn you about is to only let it sit open for, at most, 2 or 3 weeks. During primary fermentation the yeast is so active it sort of forms a protective cloud of co2 on top of your beer. Once that drops you are potentially open to infection.

    Jasper

    PS - as far as mash temps are concerned. It is really what you are going for. If you are looking for a dry/boozy beer shoot on the lower end (148ish F) and if you are shooting for a sweeter/full bodied flavor profile shoot for higher (156 F or so).

    Mash Temperature and Beer Body in All Grain Brewing @ BeerSmith

  • edited June 2015

    @Jasper I just make rum in open stainless vats. Father in law taught me just to throw a blanket over to keep the critters out. He is a traditional grappa distiller from the old country. Haven't had an infection yet. For the fsw I can ferment it under pressure if you think that is best. :D

  • @rossco said: Jasper I just make rum in open stainless vats. Father in law taught me just to throw a blanket over to keep the critters out. He is a traditional grappa distiller from the old country. Haven't had an infection yet. For the fsw I can ferment it under pressure if you think that is best. :D

    I would put it under airlock personally... but that is just me being an anal beer brewer. Practically speaking, it probably doesn't matter a whole lot. With beer you have to be really careful because you are bottling it and drinking it over several months/years and any sort of microbes will continue to develop and potentially make off flavors. With whiskey you are distilling it and killing everything in the process. So, long story short, even if there are some rogue microbes getting in there... as long as you distill it in a timely fashion they probably won't have a ton of time to mess up your flavor profile.

    The initial lacto infection is what you have to be really worried about... but again... your yeast should win that battle assuming they are well taken care of.

    Jasper

  • I used to be an overly anal retentive homebrewer too. Fermenting for distlllation has taught me that all that fussiness about sanitation was overkill. I brew beer and make mead with just a loosely fit fermenter cover quite a bit now with no detectible decline in quality. I wish I had known this 26 years ago when I started brewing.

    I'm more like I am now than I was before.

  • edited June 2015

    @Kapea said: I used to be an overly anal retentive homebrewer too. Fermenting for distlllation has taught me that all that fussiness about sanitation was overkill. I brew beer and make mead with just a loosely fit fermenter cover quite a bit now with no detectible decline in quality. I wish I had known this 26 years ago when I started brewing.

    I started beer brewing in college - when my roommate moved out his room turned into the fermentation room. He was one of 'those' type of roommates so I was SUPER cautious back then... I didn't want any residual Ryan in my beer! Old habits die hard i guess :)

  • Indeed. I transfered my laboratory techniques (ppb range and lower) to my brewing techniques. Not necessary, but nobody ever said my beers are infected either. As you say, it was hard to break old routines.

    I'm more like I am now than I was before.

  • @punkin said: I would suggest either a good ale or pilsner malt. If you want to spend the money go for an english one, but i'd be happy with BB or JW.

    Pilsner will be lighter in colour and add less malt flavour, ale will be a stronger flavour. I reckon with the sort of grist you'll have with the peated stuff that the cheapest one will be the best.

    Could some one explain what BB and JW means please

  • JW= Joe white Malt BB= BARRETT BURSTON Malt

  • @Jasper, In Australia & many parts of the world, highly modified malt usage is common. This means that there are only low level DMS precursors (SMM) to start with, so boiling to reduce DMS isn't a consideration for many - especially as you rightly say it will be blown off early in the run.

    One other thing the boil does apart from denature the enzymes is sterilize it. If I am making a scotch & no chilling rather than cooling & immediately pitching, I definitely would boil for these reasons.

    There is a difference between sanitized & sterilized, but for our purposes, I don't think we're too fussed on the sterilisation (except if you are doing yeast propagation eg slants). Simply sanitizing your kit eg with starsan or iodophor is all we need. I am no longer locked onto using an airlock & am now comfortable with using loose fitting lids or clingwrap. FYI I have successfully kept fermented beer in sanitized HDPE cubes for an extended period with no issue.

    Re the boiling of big beers to introduce further flavor complexity, in my experience it works best & is more efficient if a portion is removed and heavily reduced to a thick syrup which is then re-introduced to the rest of the wort. IMHO, it is a great way to add additional complexity easily & could help a whiskey - if you are after more flavour.

    Agree with you on healthy yeast, but as fast ferments are often the result of higher ferment temps, each person needs to understand the yeast they are using and is undesirable flavours being introduced as a result of higher temp ferments.

    As to cooling, I have never cooled by beer wort. I either run into my sanitized fermenter & let it sit overnight before pitching or no-chill in HDPE cubes.

    So after all that, I reckon it really comes down to each brewer to understand their process and equipment as well as its (& their) limitations and make decisions that factor in their risk appetite.

  • edited June 2015

    @Malted said: If I get a stack of puking when I run this no-boiled batch, I reckon I will be back to boiling. It didn't feel right not boiling, I can't see enough reasons (for me) to not boil.

    Was not impressed with that trial. Lacto in both fermenters and it puked it's guts up, brown foam through the parrot. I wasn't watching close enough prior to puking but dialled down the amps after the foam came through and let it boil away until it calmed down and then was able to bring the amps back up to start the stripping run. It was easy enough to deal with since I have an element amp control unit. I now have some 'Anti Foam' from punkin but don't think it is 100% the solution, for me it will be back to boiling. There just seemed to me to be too many uncoagulated proteins etc in the wash. Lacto possibly came from bits of grain in the wash that made it's way through which in normal circumstances would have been in the trub after the boil. With the no boil I did whirlpool but it all just would not settle.

    I know one go at it is not enough to make any conclusion's as there were probably issues elsewhere in my brew process. My conclusion is that, for me, boiling sits better in my brew process.

    Interestingly, the stripped product seems pretty good, despite the lacto in the wash. I now have some 4" bubble T's to have a play at doing a hybrid product run at the stripped washes.

    If it aint half off, it aint on sale!

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